Discussion:
Rat Study Shows Dirty Better Than Clean
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rmjon23
2006-06-18 02:03:44 UTC
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Rat Study Shows Dirty Better Than Clean
- By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer
Friday, June 16, 2006


(06-16) 19:56 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --


Gritty rats and mice living in sewers and farms seem to have healthier
immune systems than their squeaky clean cousins that frolic in cushy
antiseptic labs, two studies indicate. The lesson for humans: Clean
living may make us sick.


The studies give more weight to a 17-year-old theory that the sanitized
Western world may be partly to blame for soaring rates of human allergy
and asthma cases and some autoimmune diseases, such as Type I diabetes
and rheumatoid arthritis. The theory, called the hygiene hypothesis,
figures that people's immune systems aren't being challenged by disease
and dirt early in life, so the body's natural defenses overreact to
small irritants such as pollen.


The new studies, one of which was published Friday in the peer reviewed
Scandinavian Journal of Immunology, found significant differences in
the immune systems between euthanized wild and lab rodents.


When the immune cells in the wild rats are stimulated by researchers,
"they just don't do anything they sit there; if you give them same
stimulus to the lab rats, they go crazy," said study co-author Dr.
William Parker, a Duke University professor of experimental surgery. He
compared lab rodents to more than 50 wild rats and mice captured and
killed in cities and farms.


Also, the wild mice and rats had as much as four times higher levels of
immunoglobulins, yet weren't sick, showing an immune system tuned to
fight crucial germs, but not minor irritants, Parker said. He said what
happened in the lab rats is what likely occurs in humans: their immune
systems have got it so cushy they overreact to smallest of problems.


"Your immune system is like the person who lives in the perfect house
and has all the food they want, you're going to start worrying about
the little things like someone stepping on your flowers," Parker said.


Challenged immune systems - such as kids who grow up with two or more
pets - don't tend to develop as many allergies, said Dr. Stanley
Goldstein, director of Allergy & Asthma Care of Long Island.


Parker said his study has drawbacks because he can't be sure that the
age of the wild and lab rodents are equivalent, although he estimates
the ages based on weight. He also could not control what happened in
the past to the wild rats to see if they had unusual diseases before
being captured and killed.


It would have been more useful had Parker studied extremely young wild
rodents because, according to the hygiene hypothesis, that's when the
protection from dirty living starts, said Dr. Stuart Levy, director of
the Center for Adaptation Genetics and Drug Resistance at Tufts
University.


Human epidemiological studies have long given credence to the hygiene
theory, showing that allergy and asthma rates were higher in the
cleaner industrialized areas than in places such as Africa. Parker's
studies, looking at animal differences, may eventually help scientists
find when, where and how environmental exposure help protect against
future allergies and immune disorders, said Goldstein, and Dr. Jeffrey
Platt of the Mayo Clinic in Minn., both of whom were not part of
Parker's studies.


Parker said he hopes to build a 50-foot artificial sewer for his next
step, so that he could introduce the clean lab rats to an artificial
dirty environment and see how and when the immunity was activated.


That may be the biggest thing to come out of the wild and lab rodent
studies, Platt said: "Then all of a sudden it becomes possible to
expose people to the few things (that exercise the immune system) and
gives them the benefit of the dirty environment without having to
expose them to the dirt."


URL:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2006/06/16/national/a113757D61.DTL
mcs
2006-06-19 03:58:45 UTC
Permalink
well if that were true athletes from my fair poisoned cities would do way
better but in fact they do way worse. We would have 1000 joggers at 6am in
our area like in Hawaii instead of record number of emergency room
admissions and asthma cases... but heckk this sounded sooo good till you
looked further and there is much more but if you believe that diry is better
then you must like high prices for gas and oil.
Post by rmjon23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rat Study Shows Dirty Better Than Clean
- By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer
Friday, June 16, 2006
(06-16) 19:56 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --
Gritty rats and mice living in sewers and farms seem to have healthier
immune systems than their squeaky clean cousins that frolic in cushy
antiseptic labs, two studies indicate. The lesson for humans: Clean
living may make us sick.
The studies give more weight to a 17-year-old theory that the sanitized
Western world may be partly to blame for soaring rates of human allergy
and asthma cases and some autoimmune diseases, such as Type I diabetes
and rheumatoid arthritis. The theory, called the hygiene hypothesis,
figures that people's immune systems aren't being challenged by disease
and dirt early in life, so the body's natural defenses overreact to
small irritants such as pollen.
The new studies, one of which was published Friday in the peer reviewed
Scandinavian Journal of Immunology, found significant differences in
the immune systems between euthanized wild and lab rodents.
When the immune cells in the wild rats are stimulated by researchers,
"they just don't do anything they sit there; if you give them same
stimulus to the lab rats, they go crazy," said study co-author Dr.
William Parker, a Duke University professor of experimental surgery. He
compared lab rodents to more than 50 wild rats and mice captured and
killed in cities and farms.
Also, the wild mice and rats had as much as four times higher levels of
immunoglobulins, yet weren't sick, showing an immune system tuned to
fight crucial germs, but not minor irritants, Parker said. He said what
happened in the lab rats is what likely occurs in humans: their immune
systems have got it so cushy they overreact to smallest of problems.
"Your immune system is like the person who lives in the perfect house
and has all the food they want, you're going to start worrying about
the little things like someone stepping on your flowers," Parker said.
Challenged immune systems - such as kids who grow up with two or more
pets - don't tend to develop as many allergies, said Dr. Stanley
Goldstein, director of Allergy & Asthma Care of Long Island.
Parker said his study has drawbacks because he can't be sure that the
age of the wild and lab rodents are equivalent, although he estimates
the ages based on weight. He also could not control what happened in
the past to the wild rats to see if they had unusual diseases before
being captured and killed.
It would have been more useful had Parker studied extremely young wild
rodents because, according to the hygiene hypothesis, that's when the
protection from dirty living starts, said Dr. Stuart Levy, director of
the Center for Adaptation Genetics and Drug Resistance at Tufts
University.
Human epidemiological studies have long given credence to the hygiene
theory, showing that allergy and asthma rates were higher in the
cleaner industrialized areas than in places such as Africa. Parker's
studies, looking at animal differences, may eventually help scientists
find when, where and how environmental exposure help protect against
future allergies and immune disorders, said Goldstein, and Dr. Jeffrey
Platt of the Mayo Clinic in Minn., both of whom were not part of
Parker's studies.
Parker said he hopes to build a 50-foot artificial sewer for his next
step, so that he could introduce the clean lab rats to an artificial
dirty environment and see how and when the immunity was activated.
That may be the biggest thing to come out of the wild and lab rodent
studies, Platt said: "Then all of a sudden it becomes possible to
expose people to the few things (that exercise the immune system) and
gives them the benefit of the dirty environment without having to
expose them to the dirt."
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2006/06/16/national/a113757D61.DTL
a***@gmail.com
2006-06-20 17:32:43 UTC
Permalink
As far as these rats, genetics would play a part wouldn't it? Rats
that live to the point of reproduction would be the ones able to
tolerate the city. Two strong rats would produce strong baby rats.

It could be true "in part". If you are in an environment with no
irritants you body may overreact when irritants are introduced. On the
other end of the scale, if you are overloaded with irritants you may
not be able to handle the large volume. But these are all unproven
outside of genetics for allergies. Although it was true for TB....
mcs
2006-06-21 00:12:46 UTC
Permalink
people can grow a tolerance and thus if put in a situation with irritants
become sort of immune like allergy shots but to call it better is a long
stretch.
I am reminded of a recent bike race in Philly where hundreds came to our
city to partake. The guy calling the race , a commentator for sports
recently had cancer and continusouly glorifies the city which is
understandable since it pays his way. However during the race he kept
stating that soo many athletes from the area were doing well and this is a
mecca for bike riders. 1. He didn't mention the area , didn't include this
city, , part outside in rural Pa maybe ,but not the city and even though a
good majority of the bikers were from this "area" the person who won yet
again trained far far away and was not even from the area... Over and over
this city ignores the implications of bad air. If you do research about what
constitutes danger, its often based on the level of irritants or pollution.
I think they can methodically measure the danger/ pollution ratio but don't
want to scare so many people who have to live thru this. Equally they can
compare the rate of asthma and meds in given area based on pollution to
clean and unclean areas. Usually the best athletes in the world as the
richest people in the world usually chooses islands surrounded by clean air.
The smartest people and richest people pay and play for the most part in
housing in the cleanest air environments ( a few exceptions like NYC and LA)
Post by a***@gmail.com
As far as these rats, genetics would play a part wouldn't it? Rats
that live to the point of reproduction would be the ones able to
tolerate the city. Two strong rats would produce strong baby rats.
It could be true "in part". If you are in an environment with no
irritants you body may overreact when irritants are introduced. On the
other end of the scale, if you are overloaded with irritants you may
not be able to handle the large volume. But these are all unproven
outside of genetics for allergies. Although it was true for TB....
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