Discussion:
yamoa powder - You must read about this!
(too old to reply)
Rae
2005-06-09 16:19:38 UTC
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I heard through an alternative newsletter about an amazing all natural
asthma cure. I found it locally at an alternative health pharmacy here where
I live.

It is amazing. I am on day 12 of taking this powder. 1/4 teaspoon in AM with
a little grapefruit juice and 1/4 teaspoon at night. (I didn't want to take
it with honey as they suggest since I watch my weight and sugar intake.)

For the first time since I cannot remember, YEARS, I was able to walk my dog
up hills etc., without using my rescue inhaler. I came home from our walk so
excited the last couple of days. Still didn't need the inhaler after I got
home.

I used to reach for the inhaler on waking. Now, I get up fine. I do not need
the inhaler.

I visited an asthma allergy and asthma doctor here in Va., a few years ago
and he wanted me to go on pulmicort. I tried it then stopped because it gave
me yeast infections in my throat. I didn't trust the long term side affects
it might cause so stopped using it after the first tube ran out. After that,
I just used my inhaler (over the counter inhaler) all the time throughout
the day and night. I never went anywhere without it.

Now, I'm thinking maybe I'm cured.

The other thing this amazing ALL NATURAL powder has done, is to clear up my
allergies. I have not been without a box of tissues nearby or in my hand
when outside in YEARS. On my walks, I had to contantly dry my nose and eyes
over the last several years because i live in Shenandoah valley and its bad
for allergies and asthmatics. It was always embarrasing when meeting people
on the street or in the park, having to use my tissue constantly. Over the
past few days, when I walked my dog, I never needed a tissue! My nose did
not run AT ALL. My eyes did not water.

I cannot say enough about this wonderful product. They say most people only
have to use one bottle. It last 30 days. Some people may need a 2nd . I do
not know yet if I'll need a follow up bottle or not, but at day 12, I am
ecstatic!

I have had asthma since I was about 7 years old. Felt I came near death
several times. Had many many severe asthma attacks. One came recently, this
past month. I Finally had resolved after the last one which was brought on
by a simple head cold which went into bronchitus, that I could not risk my
life with any more. So had resigned myself to going back to the doctor to
get on the pulmicort or whatever he suggested. Then I picked up a health
newsletter that I had read before and had put aside. I read again about this
amazing powder from Ghana. I got the powder from a local health pharmacy.
Needless to say, I will NOT be going on medication.

I know I sound like an infomercial for this product, but I have no interest
in their company. I just want to share this wonderful info for anyone out
there who like me, suffered with asthma and didn't want to take medication
or for those looking for help for their children.
This product is called yamoa. They have a website called yamoapowder.com
Read the other testimonials on their website for yourself. If you do an
online search, you can find several vitamin or health stores that sell it
here in US so you don't have to order it from England.

I hope this helps someone.

Rae
00doc
2005-06-10 02:53:24 UTC
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Post by Rae
I know I sound like an infomercial for this product, but I have no
interest in their company.
Rae - I know this guy who has some realestate in Florida. Right now it
is just cheap swamp land but he says that several developers are
looking to build hotels and condos there so if you hurry you can get
in one the ground floor and really clean up. I'm not personally
involved with this so I don't stand to make any money if you decide to
invest.

If you would like to know more just go to paypal.com and deposit $50
into the account of ***@commoncast.com and he'll send you a
brochure.

It is just a wonderful opportunity. I just like seeing other benefit
from things like this.
--
00doc
Rae
2005-06-10 14:10:19 UTC
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What a pitifully negative person you are! Or perhaps you work for a
pharmaceutical company? That would explain much.

Hopefully there will be others who will read my post and investigate further
by reading the testimonials of others like me who have been cured and want
to share their blessing and be helped by this wonderful cure.

You are in effect, calling me a liar. So be it. That speak volumes about who
you are. Your awkward attempt at humorous sarcasm is downright stupid. No
wit or imagination. You have no talent there so try your hand at something
else. Your posts in this newsgroup have offered nothing of value to anyone.

The cost of one bottle of this "cure" - not just treatment, is far less than
what people end up paying for the monthly medication which pharmaceutical
companies get rich from. Are the makers of this powder suppose to
manufacture, package and deliver it free?

There will be those who will be helped whether you attempt to interfere or
not. For any who you succeed in dissuading, may it be part of your karma.

If anyone out there wants to know more, anyone besides this negative soul
that is, please feel free to e-mail me. You can also read about it in Dr.
David G. Williams' Alternatives newsletter.

Rae
Post by Rae
I know I sound like an infomercial for this product, but I have no
interest in their company.
Rae - I know this guy who has some realestate in Florida. Right now it is
just cheap swamp land but he says that several developers are looking to
build hotels and condos there so if you hurry you can get in one the
ground floor and really clean up. I'm not personally involved with this so
I don't stand to make any money if you decide to invest.
If you would like to know more just go to paypal.com and deposit $50 into
It is just a wonderful opportunity. I just like seeing other benefit from
things like this.
--
00doc
Bob
2005-06-10 14:59:47 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Rae
Your posts in this newsgroup have offered nothing of value to anyone.
Were you born yesterday? Sounds like it.
Post by Rae
The cost of one bottle of this "cure" - not just treatment, is far less than
what people end up paying for the monthly medication which pharmaceutical
companies get rich from. Are the makers of this powder suppose to
manufacture, package and deliver it free?
In lieu of having no good research to back up *your* cure claims, it
would be a good idea for *you* to offer it for free to those who want
to try it. I have done that before here in this newsgroup.
Post by Rae
There will be those who will be helped whether you attempt to interfere or
not. For any who you succeed in dissuading, may it be part of your karma.
And may the flittings of a thousand butterflies brush back the Bliss
Ninny sheen from your "I've found the cure" mentality.
Post by Rae
You can also read about it in Dr.
David G. Williams' Alternatives newsletter.
Ah, thank you.
Rae
2005-06-10 17:02:35 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
Your posts in this newsgroup have offered nothing of value to anyone.
Were you born yesterday? Sounds like it.
Oh really? I would like to hear from anyone who has gotten their asthma
under control or achieved a cure based on his or perhaps it's a her posts
here. They enjoy citing a lot of stats and showing off what limited
knowledge in this area that they have obtained but WHO has it helped ?
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
The cost of one bottle of this "cure" - not just treatment, is far less than
what people end up paying for the monthly medication which pharmaceutical
companies get rich from. Are the makers of this powder suppose to
manufacture, package and deliver it free?
In lieu of having no good research to back up *your* cure claims, it
would be a good idea for *you* to offer it for free to those who want
to try it. I have done that before here in this newsgroup.
Why on earth would I do that? I am just another person who had asthma and
found a remedy which I was more than happy to pay for and now want to share
the info with others who it may help. WHY ARE YOU HERE?
I'm not here to promote their product for the sake of helping *them*. I
posted here to give people some helpful info. In fact it was another asthma
forum which mentioned it which propted me to do more research and then go
back to my newsletter from Dr. Williams only to find it was the same one he
had written about which I read a year ago and never followed up on.

So do you actually have asthma or are you another asthma doctor or drug
company rep who doesn't want to hear about alternative therapies because it
cuts into your territory and threatens your income and way of life?

Boy, look at this people! The establishment medical community and drug
companies are going nuts in here !

I read another post by a gentleman who went on and on about how grateful he
was for some prescripition drugs that his doctor prescribed and how they
saved him and were wonderful, etc., etc.. I Didn't see this type of response
to HIS post. Hmm, could it be maybe because it was a prescription DRUG,
which required a DOCTOR'S prescription?? Me thinks so...
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
There will be those who will be helped whether you attempt to interfere or
not. For any who you succeed in dissuading, may it be part of your karma.
And may the flittings of a thousand butterflies brush back the Bliss
Ninny sheen from your "I've found the cure" mentality.
... and may they krap upon your know it all-money hungry "mentality" leaving
it to thereafter dry into a fine brown powder and blow away in a gentle wind
until it finds it's way to it's ultimate destiny....
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
You can also read about it in Dr.
David G. Williams' Alternatives newsletter.
Ah, thank you.
you're welcome oh ignorant one! May little grasshopper hop hop away now...
Bob
2005-06-11 00:10:04 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Rae
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
The cost of one bottle of this "cure" - not just treatment, is far less than
what people end up paying for the monthly medication which pharmaceutical
companies get rich from. Are the makers of this powder suppose to
manufacture, package and deliver it free?
In lieu of having no good research to back up *your* cure claims, it
would be a good idea for *you* to offer it for free to those who want
to try it. I have done that before here in this newsgroup.
Why on earth would I do that?
It would show your true sincerity for one thing. Actions speak louder
than words.
Post by Rae
I am just another person who had asthma and
found a remedy which I was more than happy to pay for and now want to share
the info with others who it may help.
You are a person with an anectodal experience, and nothing else. If
you think your asthma symptoms have abated for the last two weeks
because of this yamoawowee powder, how do you know it is not simply a
placebo effect? For all you know, your faith may have made you well,
for the time being.
Post by Rae
WHY ARE YOU HERE?
I am here to learn and to support people.
Post by Rae
So do you actually have asthma or are you another asthma doctor or drug
company rep who doesn't want to hear about alternative therapies because it
cuts into your territory and threatens your income and way of life?
Actually I'm a chiropractor. Here's a little-known fun factoid; I
have been retained as a speaker for a well-known pharma company. I
present prevention measures to employees of companies with whom they
(the pharma company) and the employers' insurance companies do
business. Imagine that; a pharma company paying a chiropractor to
speak on non-drug, preventive measures. Now, please tell me how that
fits into your theory.
Post by Rae
Boy, look at this people! The establishment medical community and drug
companies are going nuts in here !
More like nuts and bolts. You seem to be quite excited though!
Post by Rae
I read another post by a gentleman who went on and on about how grateful he
was for some prescripition drugs that his doctor prescribed and how they
saved him and were wonderful, etc., etc.. I Didn't see this type of response
to HIS post. Hmm, could it be maybe because it was a prescription DRUG,
which required a DOCTOR'S prescription?? Me thinks so...
Yo Rae, you thinks silly...
Post by Rae
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
There will be those who will be helped whether you attempt to interfere or
not. For any who you succeed in dissuading, may it be part of your karma.
And may the flittings of a thousand butterflies brush back the Bliss
Ninny sheen from your "I've found the cure" mentality.
... and may they krap upon your know it all-money hungry "mentality" leaving
it to thereafter dry into a fine brown powder and blow away in a gentle wind
until it finds it's way to it's ultimate destiny....
Is that the same fine brown powder than you have been eating for the
past two weeks?
Post by Rae
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
You can also read about it in Dr.
David G. Williams' Alternatives newsletter.
Ah, thank you.
you're welcome oh ignorant one! May little grasshopper hop hop away now...
You assume much, but thanks again.
Rae
2005-06-11 16:07:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
The cost of one bottle of this "cure" - not just treatment, is far less than
what people end up paying for the monthly medication which
pharmaceutical
companies get rich from. Are the makers of this powder suppose to
manufacture, package and deliver it free?
In lieu of having no good research to back up *your* cure claims, it
would be a good idea for *you* to offer it for free to those who want
to try it. I have done that before here in this newsgroup.
Why on earth would I do that?
It would show your true sincerity for one thing. Actions speak louder
than words.
Well Mr. Bob, I would like to be a philanthropist and buy a round for the
house, but I think anyone coming here to seek help for their asthma can
decide whether its worth it to them to buy a bottle. I did buy one for my
brother which I'm mailing him. You can lead a horse to water butcha can't
make him drink as they say. "The Lord helps them that helps themselves"(par)
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
I am just another person who had asthma and
found a remedy which I was more than happy to pay for and now want to share
the info with others who it may help.
You are a person with an anectodal experience, and nothing else. If
you think your asthma symptoms have abated for the last two weeks
because of this yamoawowee powder, how do you know it is not simply a
placebo effect? For all you know, your faith may have made you well,
for the time being.
If you ever had asthma Mr. Bob, you'd know their ain't no such thing as a
*placebo effect* in asthma if the person has the physical ailment, that is
if you truly have asthma and not merely some type of panic attacks. I've had
it since I was 7. You ain't walked in my shoes so don't try to second guess
me.

I've tried a lot - if not ALL of the other all natural alternatives written
about from a long list of expensive vitamin & mineral combinations that are
suppose to help, to certain foods and oils, coffee, and herbs. NOTHING else
helped. I wasn't fooled by any *placebo* effect with any of them and noticed
NO difference. That was why I probably waited so long after reading about
this one in Dr. William's Alternatives newsletter to buy it. I was
skeptical. I also thought I had to order overseas and just put it off.
Finally after my last attack when I felt like I once again came close to
death because my rescue inhaler hardly worked at all and i was using it
every few minutes with little relief, and got to the point where I gave my
husband instructions as to what to do if I went unconscious because I
refused to go to the emergency room unless I went unconscious, I determined
I didn't want to take the chance of experiencing that kind of suffering any
longer. It was a last try, a last alternative, before going back to the
doctor and taking that gross pulmicort and accepting what damage it might
do. One finally gets to the point where they feel they have to choose one
evil over another. No *placebo* at work here. You can't fool a true
asthmatic with a placebo effect.
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
WHY ARE YOU HERE?
I am here to learn and to support people.
Post by Rae
So do you actually have asthma or are you another asthma doctor or drug
company rep who doesn't want to hear about alternative therapies because it
cuts into your territory and threatens your income and way of life?
Actually I'm a chiropractor. Here's a little-known fun factoid; I
have been retained as a speaker for a well-known pharma company. I
present prevention measures to employees of companies with whom they
(the pharma company) and the employers' insurance companies do
business. Imagine that; a pharma company paying a chiropractor to
speak on non-drug, preventive measures. Now, please tell me how that
fits into your theory.
Post by Rae
Boy, look at this people! The establishment medical community and drug
companies are going nuts in here !
More like nuts and bolts. You seem to be quite excited though!
Oh I AM. I AM!
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
I read another post by a gentleman who went on and on about how grateful he
was for some prescripition drugs that his doctor prescribed and how they
saved him and were wonderful, etc., etc.. I Didn't see this type of response
to HIS post. Hmm, could it be maybe because it was a prescription DRUG,
which required a DOCTOR'S prescription?? Me thinks so...
Yo Rae, you thinks silly...
Well I suspect all those doctors that specialized in asthma would probably
not like to see asthma go away entirely by a simple "cure". They'd lose a
lot of patients and maybe have to change their specialty and maybe go back
to school and study another field.
And of course I need not mention the drug companies and their profit
incentives. But they'd just invent another disease and try to convince
people via television that they got that new disease. "Ask you doctor about
XXX".
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
There will be those who will be helped whether you attempt to interfere or
not. For any who you succeed in dissuading, may it be part of your karma.
And may the flittings of a thousand butterflies brush back the Bliss
Ninny sheen from your "I've found the cure" mentality.
... and may they krap upon your know it all-money hungry "mentality" leaving
it to thereafter dry into a fine brown powder and blow away in a gentle wind
until it finds it's way to it's ultimate destiny....
Is that the same fine brown powder than you have been eating for the
past two weeks?
YES! You almost got the riddle.
The butterfly delivers that wonderful brown powder via this forum through
your own actions and words and you are thereby made an unwitting aid in
helping all those in need by reading these posts. "It's ultimate destiny."

"Those who have ears, let them hear"
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
You can also read about it in Dr.
David G. Williams' Alternatives newsletter.
Ah, thank you.
you're welcome oh ignorant one! May little grasshopper hop hop away now...
You assume much, but thanks again.
Bob
2005-06-11 18:07:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Rae
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
I am just another person who had asthma and
found a remedy which I was more than happy to pay for and now want to share
the info with others who it may help.
You are a person with an anectodal experience, and nothing else. If
you think your asthma symptoms have abated for the last two weeks
because of this yamoawowee powder, how do you know it is not simply a
placebo effect? For all you know, your faith may have made you well,
for the time being.
If you ever had asthma Mr. Bob, you'd know their ain't no such thing as a
*placebo effect* in asthma if the person has the physical ailment, that is
if you truly have asthma and not merely some type of panic attacks. I've had
it since I was 7. You ain't walked in my shoes so don't try to second guess
me.
IMO, one should always second-guess a person who proclaims any cure.
Perhaps you are not familiar with the true meaning of the word "cure".
That is why you are getting so much heat for your proclamations. Most
health conditions are managed, at some level on a continuum. Yours is
a tale of instant magic, or seemingly so, on its face. You know,
their own website does not proclaim a cure. Why should you?
Post by Rae
I've tried a lot - if not ALL of the other all natural alternatives written
about from a long list of expensive vitamin & mineral combinations that are
suppose to help, to certain foods and oils, coffee, and herbs. NOTHING else
helped. I wasn't fooled by any *placebo* effect with any of them and noticed
NO difference. That was why I probably waited so long after reading about
this one in Dr. William's Alternatives newsletter to buy it. I was
skeptical.
So you understand now that someone who is proclaiming a cure, and
adamantly so, is a person who should be viewed with skepticism?
Post by Rae
Well I suspect all those doctors that specialized in asthma would probably
not like to see asthma go away entirely by a simple "cure". They'd lose a
lot of patients and maybe have to change their specialty and maybe go back
to school and study another field.
That's a good one. With the plethora of chronic and degenerative
diseases occurring in our population, there will never, ever, ever, be
a shortage of unhealthy people. You should go into the field yourself
Rae. Just give National Jewish a call and convince them to begin a
study.
Post by Rae
"Those who have ears, let them hear"
"Those who have eyes, let them see"
ARoberts
2005-06-11 18:40:11 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
I am just another person who had asthma and
found a remedy which I was more than happy to pay for and now want to share
the info with others who it may help.
You are a person with an anectodal experience, and nothing else. If
you think your asthma symptoms have abated for the last two weeks
because of this yamoawowee powder, how do you know it is not simply a
placebo effect? For all you know, your faith may have made you well,
for the time being.
If you ever had asthma Mr. Bob, you'd know their ain't no such thing as a
*placebo effect* in asthma if the person has the physical ailment, that is
if you truly have asthma and not merely some type of panic attacks. I've had
it since I was 7. You ain't walked in my shoes so don't try to second guess
me.
IMO, one should always second-guess a person who proclaims any cure.
Perhaps you are not familiar with the true meaning of the word "cure".
That is why you are getting so much heat for your proclamations. Most
health conditions are managed, at some level on a continuum. Yours is
a tale of instant magic, or seemingly so, on its face. You know,
their own website does not proclaim a cure. Why should you?
Good point. That has been my major contention with this. Is she saying that
she is no longer taking even the yamoa powder and she has no asthma
symptoms? Or is she saying that she has traded the yamoa powder for
conventional meds and is controlling it this way (replaced one maintenance
regimen with another)?
Rae
2005-06-11 20:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
I am just another person who had asthma and
found a remedy which I was more than happy to pay for and now want to share
the info with others who it may help.
You are a person with an anectodal experience, and nothing else. If
you think your asthma symptoms have abated for the last two weeks
because of this yamoawowee powder, how do you know it is not simply a
placebo effect? For all you know, your faith may have made you well,
for the time being.
If you ever had asthma Mr. Bob, you'd know their ain't no such thing as a
*placebo effect* in asthma if the person has the physical ailment, that is
if you truly have asthma and not merely some type of panic attacks. I've had
it since I was 7. You ain't walked in my shoes so don't try to second guess
me.
IMO, one should always second-guess a person who proclaims any cure.
Perhaps you are not familiar with the true meaning of the word "cure".
Okay, Mr. Bob, let me ask you this:
If it *cures* me, (and I have said before I'm not sure if I'll need another
bottle yet. I said I thought I might be cured, just to correct you guys....)
But if it does cure me as I believe it has, but then does not cure John Doe
Jones, for example, then is it a cure or isn't it? Is it not then a *cure*
that worked for me, but a cure that did *not* work for John Doe Jones?
Post by Bob
That is why you are getting so much heat for your proclamations. Most
health conditions are managed, at some level on a continuum. Yours is
a tale of instant magic, or seemingly so, on its face. You know,
their own website does not proclaim a cure. Why should you?
Ahh, so you have been to the website. Maybe you'll give ARoberts the studies
citation that he's demanding from me.
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
I've tried a lot - if not ALL of the other all natural alternatives written
about from a long list of expensive vitamin & mineral combinations that are
suppose to help, to certain foods and oils, coffee, and herbs. NOTHING else
helped. I wasn't fooled by any *placebo* effect with any of them and noticed
NO difference. That was why I probably waited so long after reading about
this one in Dr. William's Alternatives newsletter to buy it. I was
skeptical.
So you understand now that someone who is proclaiming a cure, and
adamantly so, is a person who should be viewed with skepticism?
Post by Rae
Well I suspect all those doctors that specialized in asthma would probably
not like to see asthma go away entirely by a simple "cure". They'd lose a
lot of patients and maybe have to change their specialty and maybe go back
to school and study another field.
That's a good one. With the plethora of chronic and degenerative
diseases occurring in our population, there will never, ever, ever, be
a shortage of unhealthy people. You should go into the field yourself
Rae. Just give National Jewish a call and convince them to begin a
study.
Do you think they would?? Do you think Pfizer might fund it for us?
Post by Bob
Post by Rae
"Those who have ears, let them hear"
"Those who have eyes, let them see"
Bob
2005-06-12 13:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Rae
Post by Bob
IMO, one should always second-guess a person who proclaims any cure.
Perhaps you are not familiar with the true meaning of the word "cure".
If it *cures* me, (and I have said before I'm not sure if I'll need another
bottle yet. I said I thought I might be cured, just to correct you guys....)
You also said it was "a cure, not a treatment," which suggests
confusion. Is this powder not a treatment to a supposed cure?
Post by Rae
But if it does cure me as I believe it has, but then does not cure John Doe
Jones, for example, then is it a cure or isn't it? Is it not then a *cure*
that worked for me, but a cure that did *not* work for John Doe Jones?
"Cure" (the noun) suggests that a period of time has transpired since
symptoms/measured parameters, etc. have returned to normal range.
"Cure" the verb, would be the process.

I would say that if you were symptom free for 5 years (as in some
cancers, for example), you could be considered cured. Was yomoa
powder the cure in your case? You can only guess, but it will not be
for 5 years... Say that you have been symptom free until then, OK?

So you are out there mowing your yard to stress your system to see
what it can take. You go girl. I'm telling you Rae, you may really
have a calling here.
Post by Rae
Post by Bob
So you understand now that someone who is proclaiming a cure, and
adamantly so, is a person who should be viewed with skepticism?
Post by Rae
Well I suspect all those doctors that specialized in asthma would probably
not like to see asthma go away entirely by a simple "cure". They'd lose a
lot of patients and maybe have to change their specialty and maybe go back
to school and study another field.
That's a good one. With the plethora of chronic and degenerative
diseases occurring in our population, there will never, ever, ever, be
a shortage of unhealthy people. You should go into the field yourself
Rae. Just give National Jewish a call and convince them to begin a
study.
Do you think they would?? Do you think Pfizer might fund it for us?
This is your baby, remember?
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-12 13:28:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bob
I would say that if you were symptom free for 5 years (as in
some
cancers, for example), you could be considered cured.
I must not be cured of asthma then. It's only been a little over
two years. You remind me of one of the partners in my family
practice group who keeps insisting that I'm only in remission and
I'll be back for more asthma meds, and then angrily stomps out of
the room. Why he's so p*ssed off that my son and I no longer
need asthma medication is beyond me, but perhaps you can explain
it.
Bob
2005-06-12 18:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:28:52 -0500, "NorthShoreCEO"
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Post by Bob
I would say that if you were symptom free for 5 years (as in
some
cancers, for example), you could be considered cured.
I must not be cured of asthma then. It's only been a little over
two years. You remind me of one of the partners in my family
practice group who keeps insisting that I'm only in remission and
I'll be back for more asthma meds, and then angrily stomps out of
the room. Why he's so p*ssed off that my son and I no longer
need asthma medication is beyond me, but perhaps you can explain
it.
Why he gets upset and stomps out of the room sounds like a personal
problem to me. Perhaps he dislikes his authority being challenged.
And it probably goes much deeper. Maybe the office is the only place
where he as any authority left, and now it too seems to be slipping
away... The man definitely needs a vacation.

Certainly, 2 years and running is an excellent outcome for you, and I
applaud that fact. I also hope and pray that your current challenge
follows the same course. However, medically, the term "remission" in
the short term is both more accurate and appropriate than the term
"cure," IMO.

What happens if next year, God forbid, a reinfection occurs, followed
by asthma symptoms. Were you ever cured? That's my beef with the
word; it's an unrealistic term. I do not use the word myself, unless
I'm talkiing about a hickory smoked ham...
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-13 03:04:43 UTC
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Post by Bob
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:28:52 -0500, "NorthShoreCEO"
What happens if next year, God forbid, a reinfection occurs,
followed
by asthma symptoms. Were you ever cured? That's my beef with
the
word; it's an unrealistic term. I do not use the word myself,
unless
I'm talkiing about a hickory smoked ham...
If "reinfection" causes asthma symptoms in me at some point down
the road, then I guess we'll have to take care of the infection
again, won't we? And yes, I will believe I was cured and simply
"reinfected". Now, if you're asking what if - without any
infection at all - my asthma flares up again, then I was probably
just in remission and not really cured.
aroberts
2005-06-10 19:40:17 UTC
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Post by Rae
What a pitifully negative person you are! Or perhaps you work for a
pharmaceutical company? That would explain much.
I was wondering how long it would take you to trot out the
"pharmaceutical conspiracy". Predictible snake-oil rhetoric.
Post by Rae
Hopefully there will be others who will read my post and investigate further
by reading the testimonials of others like me who have been cured and want
to share their blessing and be helped by this wonderful cure.
"Testimonial" is another word for advertising hype. It has little
substantive meaning, except to the gullible and desperate.
Post by Rae
You are in effect, calling me a liar. So be it. That speak volumes about who
you are.
I don't believe that it was merely "in effect". Actually, he was
speaking volumes about who you are. People who claim cures for
incurable diseases should expect to be called liars, and worse.
Post by Rae
Your posts in this newsgroup have offered nothing of value to anyone.
Well, he certainly hasn't been grandiose enough to promise a cure for
an incurable disease. You've got him there. But I'll take his
evidence-based postings over your hyperbole any time.
Rae
2005-06-10 23:09:12 UTC
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Post by aroberts
Post by Rae
What a pitifully negative person you are! Or perhaps you work for a
pharmaceutical company? That would explain much.
I was wondering how long it would take you to trot out the
"pharmaceutical conspiracy".
Oh right. You were sitting there, reading these posts and thinking to
yourself:
"I wonder just how it will take before she pulls out the 'pharmaceutical
conspiracy' ? I will wait and jump in once she does so. I will tell her then
what a snake oil salesman she is and then I'll really show her some sarcasm
and discredit her so that no one will try that stuff. I'll really let her
have it then. She'll be sorry she tangled with us! Just waiting... will she
pull it out? Just waiting.... I'll be ready for her ...."

Pleeeezzzz
Post by aroberts
"Testimonial" is another word for advertising hype. It has little
substantive meaning, except to the gullible and desperate.
Oh but isn't that what the sellers of pulmicort, flovent, advair,
theophylline, etc., makers do when they ply their meds to the gullible and
desperate doctors who don't know what else to do with the gullible and
desperate asthma patient, glossing over the long term side affects many of
which aren't even yet known?

So how's your liver ? Oh well, we'll let the guy breathe while we destroy
his liver and kidneys and heart muscle and who knows what else. At least
they can't say our meds don't work. Everybody's gotta go sometime from
something after all. We'll at least allow him breathe while we destroy his
organs and we'll make MILLIONS doing it. They can't say we didn't do our
job. And to make sure we cover our rear, let's throw some $$$ to those good
hearted asthma societies to help us show by their research which we will pay
for, just how well we do!
Post by aroberts
Post by Rae
You are in effect, calling me a liar. So be it. That speak volumes about who
you are.
I don't believe that it was merely "in effect". Actually, he was
speaking volumes about who you are. People who claim cures for
incurable diseases should expect to be called liars, and worse.
Post by Rae
Your posts in this newsgroup have offered nothing of value to anyone.
Well, he certainly hasn't been grandiose enough to promise a cure for
an incurable disease. You've got him there. But I'll take his
evidence-based postings over your hyperbole any time.
oooh that word "cure". Really scares you guys doesn't it? And "all natural",
that just puts your shorts in a bunch.

Hey, don't worry, you've got a million other pills to push. If asthmatics
find a natural cure and don't need you anymore, why they've got an illness
for just about everything now days. Seems they develope a new one every
couple of months. Depressed more than a day or two? Why you're clinically
depressed. You need to take our pill.
Fidget too much? Have a hard time concentrating? Why you've got ADS and we
have a pill for that.
Hey that may not be PMS you're dealing with. We got a new diagnosis for that
condition which is far more serious than simple PMS and now there's a new
pill for it. Put away that mydol! You need our prescription!

oh i could go on, but I've played with you yo-yos long enough today.

hop away little grasshopper. hop hop away with you now.....
aroberts
2005-06-11 00:12:59 UTC
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Post by Rae
Oh right. You were sitting there, reading these posts and thinking to
yourself: "I wonder just how it will take before she pulls out the 'pharmaceutical
conspiracy' ?
Since that invariably happens when people are peddling their various
cure-all--yes.
Post by Rae
Post by aroberts
"Testimonial" is another word for advertising hype. It has little
substantive meaning, except to the gullible and desperate.
Oh but isn't that what the sellers of pulmicort, flovent, advair,
theophylline, etc., makers do when they ply their meds to the gullible and
desperate doctors who don't know what else to do with the gullible and
desperate asthma patient, glossing over the long term side affects many of
which aren't even yet known?
They can't. It's against the law to make such claims without support.
FDA, you know. Or maybe you don't, since your powder doesn't get
subjected to any testing in double-blind trials. Every one of the meds
that you mentioned have been through multiple clinical trials for
safety and efficacy. It's not perfect, but it is superior to a web
page underpinned by bark scrapings.

Do you have any controlled studies (not testimonials) that support your
claims? Let's see them--even one. And since you mentioned the
long-term side-effects of meds, how about the side-effects of your
powder? Where are the studies that demonstrate its safety and
efficacy?
Post by Rae
oooh that word "cure". Really scares you guys doesn't it?
No, but "disgust" comes to mind when we hear yet again another scammer
claim it.
Post by Rae
And "all natural", that just puts your shorts in a bunch.
"All natural" is one of many misleading marketing terms to confer an
undeserved legitimacy upon unproven remedies.

Feces is "all natural". What's your daily intake of that? (I already
know your output from reading your postings).
Rae
2005-06-11 15:33:18 UTC
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Post by aroberts
Post by Rae
Oh right. You were sitting there, reading these posts and thinking to
yourself: "I wonder just how it will take before she pulls out the 'pharmaceutical
conspiracy' ?
Since that invariably happens when people are peddling their various
cure-all--yes.
Post by Rae
Post by aroberts
"Testimonial" is another word for advertising hype. It has little
substantive meaning, except to the gullible and desperate.
Oh but isn't that what the sellers of pulmicort, flovent, advair,
theophylline, etc., makers do when they ply their meds to the gullible and
desperate doctors who don't know what else to do with the gullible and
desperate asthma patient, glossing over the long term side affects many of
which aren't even yet known?
They can't. It's against the law to make such claims without support.
FDA, you know.
FDA?? Oh now I'm really amused. Everyone knows a great deal of the people
running the FDA used to be lobbyists for the drug companies. OR they leave
the FDA and go to work as lobbyist for the drug companies. Pleeezzzz

Or maybe you don't, since your powder doesn't get
Post by aroberts
subjected to any testing in double-blind trials. Every one of the meds
that you mentioned have been through multiple clinical trials for
safety and efficacy. It's not perfect,
You're darn right it's "not perfect". ITS KILLING PEOPLE! Just a little
slower is all.

but it is superior to a web
Post by aroberts
page underpinned by bark scrapings.
"bark scrapings"? In case you did not know it oh wise one, that's how
ASPIRIN was discovered. Willow tree bark to be exact. They now make it
synthetically and doctors are now telling people to take one a day. Oh and
since we're on the subject, wasn't penicillen discovered from naturally
occurring mold?

grow up and smell the coffee bean grasshopper
Post by aroberts
Do you have any controlled studies (not testimonials) that support your
claims?
Excuse me once again - (boy you really need to read my posts slower
perhaps) - *I* don't have any studies. *I* don't work for them.
BUT, wait a second there ... let me finish before your stubby little fingers
go to town typing...
if you go to their web site, and click around there, they do have studies
and statistics like you are talking about. But even the studies your drug
companies do mean VERY little. They hide and suppress facts that the public
should know about until so many people are keeling over with heart attacks,
strokes, liver disease, kidney damage and other problems, etc., that it
finally leaks out into the news media and THEN the FDA pretends to do their
job and steps in momentarily to give them a second chance to try it again.
Do the words Viox and Clareden(sp) sound familiar???

Let's see them--even one. And since you mentioned the
Post by aroberts
long-term side-effects of meds, how about the side-effects of your
powder? Where are the studies that demonstrate its safety and
efficacy?
Post by Rae
oooh that word "cure". Really scares you guys doesn't it?
No, but "disgust" comes to mind when we hear yet again another scammer
claim it.
Well I suppose you just need to actually *have asthma* a while and then lets
see how "disgusted" you get. You'd be buying that powder quicker than I can
type "you phonie phonie phonie". You wouldn't be taking advair or flovent or
the rest of that harmful krapola until you tried the *all natural* cure that
nature provided and saw for yourself if it helped because you probably KNOW
how bad those meds are whereas this powder has no harmful side affects.

Once again, little grasshopper better be careful that karma doesn't give you
the chance to have that little experience....
Post by aroberts
Post by Rae
And "all natural", that just puts your shorts in a bunch.
"All natural" is one of many misleading marketing terms to confer an
undeserved legitimacy upon unproven remedies.
Oh, I guess that the "tree bark" you referred to so sarcastically was made
by Pfizer or Merk? Gee and here all this time, I thought God made the
trees... silly me. Thanks for clearing that up. Maybe I should buy some of
their stock? It's trading pretty low right now isn't it?
Post by aroberts
Feces is "all natural". What's your daily intake of that? (I already
know your output from reading your postings).
Well feces of people taking that krapola medicine you push is probably NOT
all natural.... That's what you're posting here.
Hope your posts don't produce any harmful long term side affects.

Gee maybe we shouldn't be reading your posts.

BEWARE people: CAUTION: FEDERAL LAW PROHIBITS DISPENSING WITHOUT
PRESCRIPTION!
SIDE EFFECTS MAY INCLUDE: "blah blah blah blah blah" (to be spoken in a low
monatone hushed voice, hoping no one will actually listen...)

Oh and by the way, in case you're curious... I FEEL GREAT today. Life is
great. I'm breathing like a normal person. Don't need that inhaler anymore
for the first time ever. And I can't wait to get out there and exercise
among all the pollen and grass! I am a very very happy and thankful person.
And I can vacuum and dust and don't need a mask. Life is SO good.

(I'm sure you're genuinly happy for me and that you just forgot to inquire
as to how I was feeling today. That's okay. I know you're very busy person
with pushing your drugs and research and all)
ARoberts
2005-06-11 16:32:40 UTC
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"Rae" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:HYKdncoIzJagmTbfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
Post the citation.
Rae
2005-06-11 17:16:25 UTC
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Post by ARoberts
Post the citation.
Excuse me? Did you mean: "Would you *please* post the citation? or some such
similiar courteous request?

Didn't anyone every teach you to ask for things nicely when you were a child
and not demand them in such a manner?

Perhaps if you did, I would go and find it and bring it to you grasshopper.

Now go hop hop away and learn some manners. Otherwise you will just have to
go to that big bad website all by yourself and find it alone.
ARoberts
2005-06-11 18:34:29 UTC
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Post by Rae
Post by ARoberts
Post the citation.
Excuse me? Did you mean: "Would you *please* post the citation? or some
such similiar courteous request?
Of course. The only reason that you have not supported your grand claim of
a cure for asthma is that I have not been sufficiently deferential.

You're the one who is trying to convince people. It's up to you if you want
to support your own claims. People will sort it out. Based on your
reception here, many already have.
Rae
2005-06-11 20:11:02 UTC
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Post by ARoberts
Post by Rae
Post by ARoberts
Post the citation.
Excuse me? Did you mean: "Would you *please* post the citation? or some
such similiar courteous request?
Of course. The only reason that you have not supported your grand claim
of a cure for asthma is that I have not been sufficiently deferential.
You're the one who is trying to convince people. It's up to you if you
want to support your own claims.
I am not trying to convince anyone. A word to the wise....
People will read it and make their choice. And I'm surely not trying to
convince you. I'm just enjoying the exchange is all.
Now let's go back to lesson 1:

When you want something, it is good manners to *ask*, not demand and the
word *please* is customarily used when making a request in *polite society*.

So again I would say, ask nicely and I will do so. Sorry but I don't
normally respond to rudeness or demands made in such tones in a fashion such
as you might desire...

People will sort it out. Based on your
Post by ARoberts
reception here, many already have.
My reception received here from the three of you, has not been from asthma
sufferers. It has been from those of you with a little bit of knowledge on a
subject which you really can't relate to unless you've been there.

"A little bit of knowledge can be a very dangerous thing."

who said that?
ARoberts
2005-06-12 14:44:11 UTC
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Post by ARoberts
People will sort it out. Based on your
Post by ARoberts
reception here, many already have.
My reception received here from the three of you, has not been from asthma
sufferers. It has been from those of you with a little bit of knowledge on
a subject which you really can't relate to unless you've been there.
Why do you assume (you know what they say about that) that I don't have
asthma? I do. A little bit of knowledge indeed...
Rae
2005-06-12 14:54:32 UTC
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I beg your pardon then. And what medication are you on may I ask?
Post by ARoberts
Post by ARoberts
People will sort it out. Based on your
Post by ARoberts
reception here, many already have.
My reception received here from the three of you, has not been from
asthma sufferers. It has been from those of you with a little bit of
knowledge on a subject which you really can't relate to unless you've
been there.
Why do you assume (you know what they say about that) that I don't have
asthma? I do. A little bit of knowledge indeed...
ARoberts
2005-06-12 14:57:39 UTC
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Post by Rae
I beg your pardon then. And what medication are you on may I ask?
Advair 500/50 and prednisone more often than I would like...
Rae
2005-06-12 15:14:15 UTC
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Advair! Goodness. You must have read about the dangers of advair then.

My brother takes that with same dosage and theophylline. I just visited him
recently before I found the yomoa. He doesn't have the asthma attacks
anymore and because of that he and his wife are quite happy with the
results. He almost died twice before they realized he had asthma and not
emphsema which his doctor misdiagnosed him with. During his last episode
before that was discovered, he had to be put on a respirator or would have
died. Then another doctor who was on call relieving his regular doctor
realized he had been misdiagnosed and did not have emphesema but had asthma
and took him off the drugs for emphesema and put him on the asthma drugs. So
because life was so horrible before these drugs, he's quite satisfied with
his quality of life now in comparison.

But he looked in bad shape otherwise to me. His lower abdomen is swollen
out and looks huge and he can't do much without sitting down to catch his
breath. I also noticed he had a red rash on his chest. I'm going to send him
the yamoa but not sure what good it will do since he's on the meds and will
probably be reluctant to stop them to give the yamoa a try. And of course
his doctor would most definately advise against it. I 've heard once you're
on advair, that its dangerous to just stop. Not sure how a person would
safely go about getting off of that stuff to see if the yamoa would help
them.

I think I understand your anger a little better now ARoberts. They say at
the base of all anger is fear. You are no doubt concerned to say the least
about taking this drug are you not?
Post by ARoberts
Post by Rae
I beg your pardon then. And what medication are you on may I ask?
Advair 500/50 and prednisone more often than I would like...
ARoberts
2005-06-12 20:58:50 UTC
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Post by Rae
Advair! Goodness. You must have read about the dangers of advair then.
My brother takes that with same dosage and theophylline. I just visited
him recently before I found the yomoa. He doesn't have the asthma attacks
anymore and because of that he and his wife are quite happy with the
results. He almost died twice before they realized he had asthma and not
emphsema which his doctor misdiagnosed him with. During his last episode
before that was discovered, he had to be put on a respirator or would have
died. Then another doctor who was on call relieving his regular doctor
realized he had been misdiagnosed and did not have emphesema but had
asthma and took him off the drugs for emphesema and put him on the asthma
drugs. So because life was so horrible before these drugs, he's quite
satisfied with his quality of life now in comparison.
But he looked in bad shape otherwise to me. His lower abdomen is swollen
out and looks huge and he can't do much without sitting down to catch his
breath. I also noticed he had a red rash on his chest. I'm going to send
him the yamoa but not sure what good it will do since he's on the meds and
will probably be reluctant to stop them to give the yamoa a try. And of
course his doctor would most definately advise against it. I 've heard
once you're on advair, that its dangerous to just stop. Not sure how a
person would safely go about getting off of that stuff to see if the yamoa
would help them.
I think I understand your anger a little better now ARoberts. They say at
the base of all anger is fear. You are no doubt concerned to say the least
about taking this drug are you not?
Post by ARoberts
Post by Rae
I beg your pardon then. And what medication are you on may I ask?
Advair 500/50 and prednisone more often than I would like...
ARoberts
2005-06-12 21:40:48 UTC
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Post by Rae
Advair! Goodness. You must have read about the dangers of advair then.
Yes. Fortunately, I have not experienced the arrythmias that have been
associated with Advair.

<snip>
Post by Rae
But he looked in bad shape otherwise to me. His lower abdomen is swollen
out and looks huge and he can't do much without sitting down to catch his
breath. I also noticed he had a red rash on his chest. I'm going to send
him the yamoa but not sure what good it will do since he's on the meds and
will probably be reluctant to stop them to give the yamoa a try. And of
course his doctor would most definately advise against it. I 've heard
once you're on advair, that its dangerous to just stop. Not sure how a
person would safely go about getting off of that stuff to see if the yamoa
would help them.
I believe that is a concern with anyone who is taking medications (or herbal
preparations): how will they interact? That is one of the reasons that I
request (well, it wasn't a particularly gracious 'request' last time, was
it?) to see if clinical trials are extant for any remedy. These will
include those contraindications and interactions.
Post by Rae
I think I understand your anger a little better now ARoberts. They say at
the base of all anger is fear. You are no doubt concerned to say the least
about taking this drug are you not?
Of course I don't like taking any medication. I was one of those people who
wouldn't even take an aspirin for a headache until I got adult-onset asthma
about 10 years ago. That, however, is not the reason for the vituperative
reaction. If you have lurked here for any time at all, then you have
witnessed an endless procession of snake-oil MLMers. We've had echinacia,
ginseng, noni juice, breathing lessions, junkets to salt mine caves, cell
salts and more. Most of these offer a cure from some arcane recipe or
remote location that only the indigenous tribesmen are aware of, and will
part with it for a fee. To my knowledge, you had never posted to this group
before, and when you did, it sounded pretty much like what we were used to:
a breathlessly excited claim of a cure. It sounded like a sales pitch.
That didn't stop me from looking at the webstite that you linked to. It
looked pretty much the same as others who have offered empty promises
before: long on personal stories, and with no controlled studies. That
usually does it for me.

Anyone who has read my previous postings knows that I am no fan of
pharmaceutical companies. I know someone who works for a one of the largest
pharmas (who will remain unnamed, because I don't need the litigation), and
he said that it is their unwritten business model to prioritize research for
"treatable chronic" over cures. This is obviously much more profitable, and
I am sure that it's a model that is endemic to the entire industry.

That said, I have even more skepticism for supplement/herbal guys. Not
because they have any less character than the pharmaceutical houses (they
don't). They are just not forced into a modicum of responsibility and
ethics by a system of oversight, as are the pharmas. It's a case of a
little bit of informed consent over no information at all.

If, as you say, you have no financial interest in the company and make no
revenues at all from the substance, and are merely a grateful consumer of
it, then I'm glad that you were able to get relief. I wasn't able to get
any more information about yamoa powder (beyond the same blurb provided by
NorthShoreCEO) on any websites other than those who are selling the
product--hardly objective. I am always intrigued by new approaches to
asthma, and look forward to seeing yamoa explored further--under more
controlled studies.
00doc
2005-06-13 04:49:38 UTC
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In repsonse to my attempt at semi-humorous response to her post that
is remarkably similar to 1000 obvious scams that have previously been
pitiful negative a pharmaceutical company worker
awkward stupid
witless
unimaginative
talentless
interfering
bad karma
And called all of my posts to this group valueless.

Then she wondered why others reacted to her in a negative fashion.

Looks like I picked the right weekend to go away for a few days.
--
00doc
ARoberts
2005-06-10 03:25:09 UTC
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Post by Rae
I heard through an alternative newsletter about an amazing all natural
asthma cure. I found it locally at an alternative health pharmacy here
where I live.
<rest of advertising hype masquerading as sincerity snipped>
Post by Rae
I hope this helps someone.
Rae
And that someone would be you and your income.
Bob
2005-06-10 14:09:54 UTC
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Post by Rae
I heard through an alternative newsletter about an amazing all natural
asthma cure. I found it locally at an alternative health pharmacy here where
I live.
Which newsletter? Just wondering.
Post by Rae
For the first time since I cannot remember, YEARS, I was able to walk my dog
up hills etc., without using my rescue inhaler. I came home from our walk so
excited the last couple of days. Still didn't need the inhaler after I got
home.
Were you wagging your tail and panting too?
Post by Rae
I cannot say enough about this wonderful product. They say most people only
have to use one bottle. It last 30 days. Some people may need a 2nd . I do
not know yet if I'll need a follow up bottle or not, but at day 12, I am
ecstatic!
Are you sure that it's not Ecstacy you've gotten into?
Post by Rae
I read again about this
amazing powder from Ghana. I got the powder from a local health pharmacy.
Needless to say, I will NOT be going on medication.
Lots of good things coming out of Ghana these days, such as Kejetia
Logic. So this is no surprise really...

http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/fun/kejetia/
gumbo
2005-06-11 21:12:04 UTC
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Post by Rae
I heard through an alternative newsletter about an amazing all natural
asthma cure. I found it locally at an alternative health pharmacy here where
I live.
There's an alternative pharmacy on the street corner near where I live too.
I asked for some yamoa, at first he looked a bit puzzled but then he gave me
some white powder and told me it was the best yamoa going in town.
When I got home I sprinked all of the powder on the buttocks.
The effects were truly remarkable! Om shanti.
Post by Rae
It is amazing.
Most definately! The buttocks have been completely numb for the last
twelve hours! I believe this is due to a massive concentration of kirlian
positronic energies forming a swirling vortex of power in the buttocks!
At last the ley-lines have been concentrated!
Post by Rae
I am on day 12 of taking this powder.
Respect due. Truly you must now be approaching the mandalic center
of individuation that many have sought but few have found. The hour
of their arrival is drawing near! Already there have been markings
seen in the cornfields near the stone circles in the ancient places of
this planet. Clearly the yamoa should be used as an offering when
contact is made.
Post by Rae
a little grapefruit juice and 1/4 teaspoon at night. (I didn't want to take
it with honey as they suggest since I watch my weight and sugar intake.)
An admirable goal that will facilitate your acceptance into their craft.
For did not the atlanteans speak of this yamoa, or "yam-ooooooo-aaaahhhhhhhh"
as it was known in the tongue of the ancients?
Post by Rae
lots of other great stuff....
The other thing this amazing ALL NATURAL powder
The person I bought my yamoa from assured me it was all natural.
He seemed surprised when I asked for 8 ounces but when I explained
that it was for application to the buttocks it was clear to him that
a quarter gram would not go very far. In the spirit of true charity he
even returned one of my currency notes to me, declaring that I would be
needing it!
Post by Rae
I cannot say enough about this wonderful product. They say most people only
have to use one bottle. It last 30 days. Some people may need a 2nd . I do
not know yet if I'll need a follow up bottle or not, but at day 12, I am
ecstatic!
Clearly I shall need to perform a discplined meditation to prepare for day 30.
Humankind will then take it's rightful place in the stars.
Meantimes continue to apply the yamoa to the buttocks in order to raise
your inner child to crystal consciousness! Never forget the remarkable
power of the buttocks!
Post by Rae
I hope this helps someone.
I can only thank you giving me this knowledge!

-- gumbo
Rae
2005-06-11 21:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Oh gumbo, you rascal you!
Post by gumbo
Post by Rae
I heard through an alternative newsletter about an amazing all natural
asthma cure. I found it locally at an alternative health pharmacy here where
I live.
There's an alternative pharmacy on the street corner near where I live too.
I asked for some yamoa, at first he looked a bit puzzled but then he gave me
some white powder and told me it was the best yamoa going in town.
When I got home I sprinked all of the powder on the buttocks.
The effects were truly remarkable! Om shanti.
Post by Rae
It is amazing.
Most definately! The buttocks have been completely numb for the last
twelve hours! I believe this is due to a massive concentration of kirlian
positronic energies forming a swirling vortex of power in the buttocks!
At last the ley-lines have been concentrated!
Post by Rae
I am on day 12 of taking this powder.
Respect due. Truly you must now be approaching the mandalic center
of individuation that many have sought but few have found. The hour
of their arrival is drawing near! Already there have been markings
seen in the cornfields near the stone circles in the ancient places of
this planet. Clearly the yamoa should be used as an offering when
contact is made.
Post by Rae
a little grapefruit juice and 1/4 teaspoon at night. (I didn't want to take
it with honey as they suggest since I watch my weight and sugar intake.)
An admirable goal that will facilitate your acceptance into their craft.
For did not the atlanteans speak of this yamoa, or
"yam-ooooooo-aaaahhhhhhhh"
as it was known in the tongue of the ancients?
Post by Rae
lots of other great stuff....
The other thing this amazing ALL NATURAL powder
The person I bought my yamoa from assured me it was all natural.
He seemed surprised when I asked for 8 ounces but when I explained
that it was for application to the buttocks it was clear to him that
a quarter gram would not go very far. In the spirit of true charity he
even returned one of my currency notes to me, declaring that I would be
needing it!
Post by Rae
I cannot say enough about this wonderful product. They say most people only
have to use one bottle. It last 30 days. Some people may need a 2nd . I do
not know yet if I'll need a follow up bottle or not, but at day 12, I am
ecstatic!
Clearly I shall need to perform a discplined meditation to prepare for day 30.
Humankind will then take it's rightful place in the stars.
Meantimes continue to apply the yamoa to the buttocks in order to raise
your inner child to crystal consciousness! Never forget the remarkable
power of the buttocks!
Post by Rae
I hope this helps someone.
I can only thank you giving me this knowledge!
-- gumbo
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-11 22:03:38 UTC
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Raw Message
Sounds like it may be more helpful for those who have hay fever
related asthma.

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/uknews/news20020813.shtml#5



Mark Chadbourn reports on a new treatment for hay fever, called
Yamoa, derived from the ground-up bark of West African gum trees.
Early statistics from a study at the Chiron Clinic, Harley
Street, London, show that 48 per cent of Yamoa users claim they
have been completely cured of hay fever, while a third believe
they've seen marked improvement. The naturally-derived product
also appears to relieve the symptoms of asthma, with nearly
one-third of subjects suffering from asthma being completely
cured and 41 per cent reporting a marked improvement. Dr Nyjon
Eccles, leading the trials, said, 'Yamoa seems to alter the
immune system so the patient is no longer sensitive to pollen
triggers. Patients need to take it for only a two month period,
never again.
Rae
2005-06-11 22:28:01 UTC
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Raw Message
Finally, some helpful input! Thank you! Just came in from cutting the grass.
It's about 98 degrees out there and very humid. Came in to cool off a few
minutes before continuing. Used to be, I would be sucking on my inhaler for
dear life about now but I find I have no need for it. I'm still blown away
by this product. (Sorry ARoberts. I know how that erks you)

That same company (yomoapowder, that is) has a product that the old
grandmother also passed down to her grandson called Eczmend. I don't have
eczema but since I have really sensitive skin I think I'll get that product
too. God bless that old shaman lady.
Sounds like it may be more helpful for those who have hay fever related
asthma.
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/uknews/news20020813.shtml#5
Mark Chadbourn reports on a new treatment for hay fever, called Yamoa,
derived from the ground-up bark of West African gum trees. Early
statistics from a study at the Chiron Clinic, Harley Street, London, show
that 48 per cent of Yamoa users claim they have been completely cured of
hay fever, while a third believe they've seen marked improvement. The
naturally-derived product also appears to relieve the symptoms of asthma,
with nearly one-third of subjects suffering from asthma being completely
cured and 41 per cent reporting a marked improvement. Dr Nyjon Eccles,
leading the trials, said, 'Yamoa seems to alter the immune system so the
patient is no longer sensitive to pollen triggers. Patients need to take
it for only a two month period, never again.
Alison Chaiken
2005-06-11 22:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Sounds like it may be more helpful for those who have hay fever
related asthma.
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/uknews/news20020813.shtml#5
If you follow this link you find that the text you posted comes from a
newspaper called the _Daily Mail_, not from the _British Medical
Journal_ as the domain name suggests. If we go to the _Daily Mail_
website and search for "yamoa," we found a story from 13 August 2002:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/womenfamily.html?in_article_id=133144&in_page_id=1799

To me the key paragraph is

Early statistics from a study by Dr Nyjon Eccles and
nutritional therapist Althea Myrie at Harley Street's Chiron
Clinic show that 48 per cent of Yamoa users claim they have
been completely cured of hay fever, and a third believe
they've seen a marked improvement.

The phrase "completely cured" should raise a red flag in the mind of
any informed reader. "users claim" doesn't sound like scientific
evidence to me. Where are the hard numeric spirometry data? But
let's go to PubMed and see if Eccles' research was published. Aha,
there are no hits for "yamoa" anywhere in all of PubMed!

Moral: asthma sufferers, you don't have to be a sucker for the crap
that herbal remedy hucksters publish. The WWW has given you the power
to check out these claims for yourself.
--
Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid.
(650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/
Notions and scruples were like spilt needles, making one afraid of
treading, or sitting down, or even eating. -- George Eliot
Rae
2005-06-11 23:47:23 UTC
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Raw Message
Neither do we have to be suckers for the "crap" the drug companies put out
there with their fixed studies THEY pay for to pass FDA approval.

Like let's pick a new one this time, .... oh I don't know, how bout:

Statin drugs for example.... which deplete the body of CQ10 and KILL people!
Betcha you'd find a ton of research backing up those drugs at your PubMed
site you think is so marvelous and reliable. Do they mention they're being
sued right now to force them to include CQ10 in their drugs to protect the
lives of the poor "suckers" who take their drugs?

You're clueless Alison Chaiken. Or is your real name Alison Pfizer???
Post by Alison Chaiken
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Sounds like it may be more helpful for those who have hay fever
related asthma.
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/uknews/news20020813.shtml#5
If you follow this link you find that the text you posted comes from a
newspaper called the _Daily Mail_, not from the _British Medical
Journal_ as the domain name suggests. If we go to the _Daily Mail_
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/womenfamily.html?in_article_id=133144&in_page_id=1799
To me the key paragraph is
Early statistics from a study by Dr Nyjon Eccles and
nutritional therapist Althea Myrie at Harley Street's Chiron
Clinic show that 48 per cent of Yamoa users claim they have
been completely cured of hay fever, and a third believe
they've seen a marked improvement.
The phrase "completely cured" should raise a red flag in the mind of
any informed reader. "users claim" doesn't sound like scientific
evidence to me. Where are the hard numeric spirometry data? But
let's go to PubMed and see if Eccles' research was published. Aha,
there are no hits for "yamoa" anywhere in all of PubMed!
Moral: asthma sufferers, you don't have to be a sucker for the crap
that herbal remedy hucksters publish. The WWW has given you the power
to check out these claims for yourself.
--
Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid.
(650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/
Notions and scruples were like spilt needles, making one afraid of
treading, or sitting down, or even eating. -- George Eliot
00doc
2005-06-13 03:45:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Rae
Neither do we have to be suckers for the "crap" the drug companies
put out there with their fixed studies THEY pay for to pass FDA
approval.
Statin drugs for example.... which deplete the body of CQ10 and KILL people!
OK - what studies are you aware of that showed increased mortality
from statins? There were one or two early ones that showe dincreaased
non-cardiac mortality and/or increased suicide risk but thhose results
were nto repeated on further study. There have been tons of studies
done on statins in differnet patient populations and with very few
exceptions they have uniformly shown improved survival (or other end
points).
Post by Rae
Betcha you'd find a ton of research backing up those drugs at
your PubMed site you think is so marvelous and reliable. Do they
mention they're being sued right now to force them to include CQ10
in
their drugs to protect the lives of the poor "suckers" who take
their
drugs?
You can sue for anything. Let us know how it comes out.

If it turns out that adding Co-Q makes the drugs safer or more
effective the I would be glad to know it. However, even if this turns
out to be the case it still does not detract from the fact that there
is overhwelming evidence of improved health in every population ever
studied (including people with normal cholesterol levels).
Post by Rae
You're clueless Alison Chaiken. Or is your real name Alison
Pfizer???
We'll wait and see if you actually provide any proof before making a
decision is about who the clueless one is.
--
00doc
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-12 00:49:48 UTC
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Raw Message
I followed the link and it's the news section of the BMJ. It was
newsworthy to them, even if it isn't to some of you. Or did you
think I trumped up the domain? Sheesh.



"Alison Chaiken"
Post by Alison Chaiken
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Sounds like it may be more helpful for those who have hay
fever
related asthma.
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/uknews/news20020813.shtml#5
If you follow this link you find that the text you posted comes from a
newspaper called the _Daily Mail_, not from the _British
Medical
Journal_ as the domain name suggests. If we go to the _Daily
Mail_
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/womenfamily.html?in_article_id=133144&in_page_id=1799
To me the key paragraph is
Early statistics from a study by Dr Nyjon Eccles and
nutritional therapist Althea Myrie at Harley Street's Chiron
Clinic show that 48 per cent of Yamoa users claim they have
been completely cured of hay fever, and a third believe
they've seen a marked improvement.
The phrase "completely cured" should raise a red flag in the
mind of
any informed reader. "users claim" doesn't sound like
scientific
evidence to me. Where are the hard numeric spirometry data?
But
let's go to PubMed and see if Eccles' research was published.
Aha,
there are no hits for "yamoa" anywhere in all of PubMed!
Moral: asthma sufferers, you don't have to be a sucker for the
crap
that herbal remedy hucksters publish. The WWW has given you
the power
to check out these claims for yourself.
--
Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid.
(650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/
Notions and scruples were like spilt needles, making one afraid of
treading, or sitting down, or even eating. -- George Eliot
Alison Chaiken
2005-06-12 02:51:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by NorthShoreCEO
I followed the link and it's the news section of the BMJ. It was
newsworthy to them, even if it isn't to some of you.
I'm not sure why the BMJ had this summary on their web site, but the
actual content was a rather poor and dated article from the _Daily
Mail_. I'm not slamming you for your posting, just urging you to
think critically. You've learned to sceptically assess the views of
medical professionals on antibitic therapy. Now extend that
scepticism to the rest of the medical literature, which has lots of
crap, just like the rest of scientific publishing. This mediocrity is
not because doctors or scientists are bad people mostly; it's just
that not everyone is smart, creative or honestly self-appraising.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Or did you think I trumped up the domain?
Of course not. I wouldn't bother to reply to someone whose postings I
don't take seriously.
--
Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid.
(650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/
Notions and scruples were like spilt needles, making one afraid of
treading, or sitting down, or even eating. -- George Eliot
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-12 13:24:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Alison Chaiken"
Post by Alison Chaiken
I'm not sure why the BMJ had this summary on their web site,
but the
actual content was a rather poor and dated article from the
_Daily
Mail_.
As I said before.....apparently the BMJ found this newsworthy.



I'm not slamming you for your posting, just urging you to
Post by Alison Chaiken
think critically. You've learned to sceptically assess the
views of
medical professionals on antibitic therapy.
I have? Please explain what you mean by this. I was open to the
views of medical professionals on antibiotic therapy when I found
that more than one study had been done to support Dr. Hahn's
findings. It was the rest of you, as I recall, who called the
theory snake oil, put into question Dr. Hahn's ethics, and called
Jim Quinlan an array of names. Some of you have come around, but
my position has been steadfast because I'm not the one with the
quick kneejerk response here. Thank God. Had I undergone CHOP-R
therapy for Non-Hodgkins lymphoma WITH the asthma and constant
illnesses I had for 33 years, I'm sure they would have had to
reduce a lot of the chemo meds and rituxan, making it far less
effective.



Now extend that
Post by Alison Chaiken
scepticism to the rest of the medical literature, which has
lots of
crap, just like the rest of scientific publishing. This
mediocrity is
not because doctors or scientists are bad people mostly; it's
just
that not everyone is smart, creative or honestly
self-appraising.
I'm not skeptical, I'm curious. Someone mentions something here
or elsewhere and I try to find out as much as possible about it.
And now I'm really curious about what you've written here. After
years of reading your posts indicating that if something can't be
found in a peer reviewed medical journal it must be snake oil,
you're writing this? You can't have it both ways, I don't think.
You can't set as the standard of validity, publication in a peer
reviewed medical journal, and then write what you've written
above.

The fact is, a doctor is conducting the trial and it looks
promising. BMJ picked it up and put it in their news section.
It's possible the original poster had asthma that was primarily
related to hay fever, which is why it cleared her (?) asthma.
She doesn't appear to be selling anything. Why everyone always
has to jump on people like this (with few exceptions - like those
selling ionizers) is beyond me, but then, I know certain
supplements work and many others here don't believe that because
they've never done the research, they've just had their typical
skeptical knee jerk response and called such postings snake oil.

There's a pathologist at the University of MD School of Medicine
who has patented something that has been shown to shrink tumors,
and enhance chemo meds, while lessening its ill effects. He
can't get funding for large human trials here, just as Dr. Hahn
has gotten little funding for large scale trials. A study was
done in Helsinki on breast cancer patients with great results.
You'll find things in Medscape about this, but mostly written by
the pathologist himself, and a few others who have been
interested. That's the way these things go. The initial
researcher first publishes something about his findings and hopes
that someone will challenge him or her and conduct their own
study. That's good science. They want their theory to either be
dispelled or validated - by several others. This appears to be a
relatively new product. Time will tell if it can help hay fever
sufferers, but it appears to have helped Rae. If, in time,
others conduct studies that prove out this initial study, I know
there will be no apologies from any of you - already having been
on the receiving end of the pitbull attacks myself.

Here's a question I've had for some time. Are all of you
atheists, or just some of you?
Alison Chaiken
2005-06-12 16:03:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by NorthShoreCEO
You've learned to sceptically assess the views of medical
professionals on antibitic therapy.
I have? Please explain what you mean by this.
You've clearly learned to think for yourself about medical questions.
Good for you!
Post by NorthShoreCEO
I'm not skeptical, I'm curious. Someone mentions something here
or elsewhere and I try to find out as much as possible about it.
Again, I congratulate you. We are all in charge of our own medical
care. I have little sympathy with people who accept poor treatment
without complaint. I have read your postings about antibiotic therapy
with interest and have often forwarded them to others who don't read
the newsgroup.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
After years of reading your posts indicating that if something can't
be found in a peer reviewed medical journal it must be snake oil,
you're writing this?
Having a study published in a peer-reviewer journal is a necessary but
not sufficient condition for being taken seriously. A lot of stuff
that's wrong or just mediocre still gets through the filters. That's
because scientists and doctors are human. I hope that if I received
proposals and papers to review that had the authors' names and
institutions blanked out that I would write the same reviews, but I'll
never know.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
The fact is, a doctor is conducting the trial and it looks
promising.
A doctor who has never published a paper in a refereed journal was
working on a yamoa trial a few years ago (2002). The trial apparently
involved asking patients if they thought yamoa was improving their
asthma. As far as I could tell, there were no quantitative
measurements and no placebo controls. You are easily smart enough,
Maureen, to see that this study is BS. I saw nothing on the BMJ's
website to indicate approval of this study.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
She doesn't appear to be selling anything. Why everyone always has
to jump on people like this
I agree that we as a group have a tendency to be too harsh on naive
people who push alternative therapies. We are all aggrieved by
hucksters who are trying to make money on the sick and sometimes we
mistake ill-informed newbies for salespeople. Having your loved ones
be dangerously ill can make you lose your sense of humor and limit
your tendency to give new people the benefit of the doubt.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Are all of you atheists, or just some of you?
Scientists have the same wide spectrum of beliefs as the rest of the
population, from evangelical to atheist. Due to the international
nature of science, I have known colleagues in every conceivable
religion. Working with a profoundly diverse group of people is one of
the great joys of a technical career.
--
Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid.
(650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/
Notions and scruples were like spilt needles, making one afraid of
treading, or sitting down, or even eating. -- George Eliot
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-13 02:51:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Alison Chaiken"
Post by NorthShoreCEO
I'm not skeptical, I'm curious. Someone mentions something
here
or elsewhere and I try to find out as much as possible about
it.
Again, I congratulate you. We are all in charge of our own
medical
care. I have little sympathy with people who accept poor
treatment
without complaint. I have read your postings about antibiotic
therapy
with interest and have often forwarded them to others who don't
read
the newsgroup.
NOW you do. It wasn't that long ago, however, that you joined
the pile on here when some of us posted interest and/or
information about Dr. Hahn and antibiotic therapy. That doesn't
mean I've recinded my offer via private email to help anyone you
know, by the way. I'm just pointing out that you've changed your
mind about the antibiotics and shouldn't be so quick to jump on
what some other doctor is doing, no matter how simplistic his
study is.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Having a study published in a peer-reviewer journal is a
necessary but
not sufficient condition for being taken seriously. A lot of
stuff
that's wrong or just mediocre still gets through the filters.
I'll never take medical journals as gospel, I merely see them as
one tool to use in guiding my own health care. Just as there are
plenty of studies in them with findings that are questionable,
there's plenty to be learned outside those journals and beyond
what our traditional doctors practice.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Post by NorthShoreCEO
The fact is, a doctor is conducting the trial and it looks
promising.
A doctor who has never published a paper in a refereed journal
was
working on a yamoa trial a few years ago (2002). The trial
apparently
involved asking patients if they thought yamoa was improving
their
asthma. As far as I could tell, there were no quantitative
measurements and no placebo controls. You are easily smart
enough,
Maureen, to see that this study is BS. I saw nothing on the
BMJ's
website to indicate approval of this study.
Actually, I see much more b.s. here. BMJ thought the article was
noteworthy and they published it as news. Until some other
doctor finds interest, this may be all we see on this. And, yes,
it's rather crude in terms of a study, but this is probably a
doctor much like Dr. Hahn was twenty years ago, who is more of a
practitioner than researcher.

By the way, why do you insist on using my first name here when I
never sign my name to my posts?
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Post by NorthShoreCEO
She doesn't appear to be selling anything. Why everyone
always has
to jump on people like this
I agree that we as a group have a tendency to be too harsh on
naive
people who push alternative therapies.
She wasn't pushing, she was posting, and "too harsh" is a gross
understatement.



We are all aggrieved by
Post by NorthShoreCEO
hucksters who are trying to make money on the sick and
sometimes we
mistake ill-informed newbies for salespeople. Having your
loved ones
be dangerously ill can make you lose your sense of humor and
limit
your tendency to give new people the benefit of the doubt.
Who do you really think came off worst in this thread? Hint: It
wasn't Rae.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Are all of you atheists, or just some of you?
Scientists have the same wide spectrum of beliefs as the rest
of the
population, from evangelical to atheist. Due to the
international
nature of science, I have known colleagues in every conceivable
religion. Working with a profoundly diverse group of people is one of
the great joys of a technical career.
You misunderstood the question. I meant those of you who respond
the way you do in threads like this.
00doc
2005-06-13 04:38:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Alison Chaiken
Post by NorthShoreCEO
She doesn't appear to be selling anything. Why everyone always has
to jump on people like this
I agree that we as a group have a tendency to be too harsh on naive
people who push alternative therapies.
I think you overstate this.

I don't think that posters who post what appear to be sincere posts
about alternative therapies meet with much if any hostility.
Skepticism - sure, but not so much hostility.

What drew fire to Rae's post was the "Hey I tried this and it cured
me - go here and buy some" type of post she made. One of the cardinal
rules of netiquette is to either lurk for a while on a new group or
accept the flames you get when you fail to do so and break some local
group rule. The group here does not like scam artists selling cures
and so they mock and hassle them when they appear. She should have
known that before making the post. She apparently didn't and even that
is OK. The big problem (the one that has drawn the hostility) is that
instead of just giving an "Oopsie!" and apologizing for posting what
appears to be an unwelcome post she has responded with hostlity.

Really, she took what started as playful chiding and was the first to
escalate things to overt insults, accusations, and name calling so she
really has no one to blame but herself because it rained back on her.
--
00doc
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-13 12:25:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by 00doc
Really, she took what started as playful chiding and was the
first to escalate things to overt insults, accusations, and
name calling so she really has no one to blame but herself
because it rained back on her.
--
00doc
I'm at a loss as to why those of you who do this kind of thing
really feel it's coming across as "teasing" or "playful chiding",
when it's not. And did it remain between the two of you - or was
it an excuse for the typical pile on? For all the spammers and
scammers who have been here before (and I don't believe Rae is
one of them), I find them far less offensive than what I see here
by the "regulars".

I know some of you are better people than you exhibit here. At
least I think you are.
00doc
2005-06-14 02:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Post by 00doc
Really, she took what started as playful chiding and was the
first to escalate things to overt insults, accusations, and
name calling so she really has no one to blame but herself
because it rained back on her.
--
00doc
I'm at a loss as to why those of you who do this kind of thing
really feel it's coming across as "teasing" or "playful chiding",
when it's not.
Well - to be accurate - I said "semi-humorous".

It was meant to be insulting to a scammer and embarrassing to someone
naive enough to post it sincerely.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
And did it remain between the two of you - or was
it an excuse for the typical pile on?
Since I poste dit to a public forum there was never any chance or
intent for it to remain between the two of us. In defense of everyone
else the "piling on" only started after she initiated the flaming so
it is not really clear to me what the others were reacting to.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
I'm at a loss as to why those of you who do this kind of thing
really feel it's coming across as "teasing" or "playful chiding",
when it's not. And did it remain between the two of you - or was
it an excuse for the typical pile on? For all the spammers and
scammers who have been here before (and I don't believe Rae is
one of them), I find them far less offensive than what I see here
by the "regulars".
I know some of you are better people than you exhibit here. At
least I think you are.
I agree that I personally would have liked for a few polite objections
to have been expressed or have her just ignored or even for the
playful banter to have continued (which from what I have seen is the
most effective way to deal with scammers - they just don't know how to
respond). However, considering that Rae was the first to initiate the
full blown name calling and personal attacks I'm really not sure why
you are seeing her as such the vicitm. At worst she only got what she
first dished out (and then continued to dish out).
--
00doc
Rae
2005-06-14 17:27:29 UTC
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Well it failed. It was not embarrasing. You say I escalated things? Had I
not defended myself against your attack, anyone reading it might confuse my
silence with an admission to your charges. I think you can dish it out but
just don't like taking it. You call me an insincere shill, I call you a
Pfizer rep. tit for tat as they say.

nuff said to u 00Doc.
Post by 00doc
It was meant to be insulting to a scammer and embarrassing to someone
naive enough to post it sincerely.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
And did it remain between the two of you - or was
it an excuse for the typical pile on?
Since I poste dit to a public forum there was never any chance or intent
for it to remain between the two of us. In defense of everyone else the
"piling on" only started after she initiated the flaming so it is not
really clear to me what the others were reacting to.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
I'm at a loss as to why those of you who do this kind of thing
really feel it's coming across as "teasing" or "playful chiding",
when it's not. And did it remain between the two of you - or was
it an excuse for the typical pile on? For all the spammers and
scammers who have been here before (and I don't believe Rae is
one of them), I find them far less offensive than what I see here
by the "regulars".
I know some of you are better people than you exhibit here. At
least I think you are.
I agree that I personally would have liked for a few polite objections to
have been expressed or have her just ignored or even for the playful
banter to have continued (which from what I have seen is the most
effective way to deal with scammers - they just don't know how to
respond). However, considering that Rae was the first to initiate the full
blown name calling and personal attacks I'm really not sure why you are
seeing her as such the vicitm. At worst she only got what she first dished
out (and then continued to dish out).
--
00doc
00doc
2005-06-15 02:44:29 UTC
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Post by Rae
Well it failed. It was not embarrasing.
If you say so. Perhaps it should have been.
Post by Rae
You say I escalated things?
Yes.
Post by Rae
Had I not defended myself against your attack, anyone reading it
might confuse my silence with an admission to your charges.
You could have responded in kind or you could have just responded in a
civil manner. Instead you chose to hurl insults and make accusations.
So, yes, you needlessly escalated things.
Post by Rae
I think
you can dish it out but just don't like taking it.
So far only one of us has appeared to be upset and resorted to name
calling.
Post by Rae
You call me an
insincere shill, I call you a Pfizer rep. tit for tat as they say.
I never said you were an insincere shill. I said that your first post
appeared that way. It did and there is a difference. FWIW I have
little doubt about your sincerity.

You can call me anything you want. Since I have not propounded any
specific drug treatment it is a little comical for you to say I am a
pharmaceutical rep. I am curious about why you chose Pfizer. The only
respiratory product they make is Spiriva, which is not used much in
asthma (it is more of an emphysema drug). Glaxo would have been a much
better choice.
Post by Rae
nuff said to u 00Doc.
OK. I hope your asthma continues to improve and you enjoy a long
period of excellent health. I really do.
--
00doc
Rae
2005-06-13 17:20:48 UTC
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Post by 00doc
Post by Alison Chaiken
Post by NorthShoreCEO
She doesn't appear to be selling anything. Why everyone always has
to jump on people like this
I agree that we as a group have a tendency to be too harsh on naive
people who push alternative therapies.
I think you overstate this.
I don't think that posters who post what appear to be sincere posts about
alternative therapies meet with much if any hostility. Skepticism - sure,
but not so much hostility.
What drew fire to Rae's post was the "Hey I tried this and it cured me -
go here and buy some" type of post she made. One of the cardinal rules of
netiquette is to either lurk for a while on a new group or accept the
flames you get when you fail to do so and break some local group rule. The
group here does not like scam artists selling cures and so they mock and
hassle them when they appear. She should have known that before making the
post. She apparently didn't and even that is OK. The big problem (the one
that has drawn the hostility) is that instead of just giving an "Oopsie!"
and apologizing for posting what appears to be an unwelcome post she has
responded with hostlity.
Really, she took what started as playful chiding and was the first to
escalate things
I did not take it as "playful chiding" when I was in effect being called a
liar and a shill for the company. I came here naively believing that this
forum might be attracting people who want help with their asthma. I think
most people who find something that helps them with something they have
suffered with a long time, just naturally wants to pass on the info.
Although there are exceptions such as one lady online who wants $20 to pass
on her discovery via a download. She wouldn't even answer email to give a
hint about the nature of her treatment or cure.

I was insulted and reacted in kind. But instead you think I should have said
"oopsie? I'm sorry" for expressing my opinion and posting my story? I
realize I'm new to this forum but I thought we still had free speech in this
country.
Perhaps if you had responded with your skepticism in a less sarcastic way
which did not in effect accuse me of false sincerity and lying, then I would
not have reacted the way I did. I was not angry just a little surprised and
chose to defend myself. Later, it became rather amusing to me. I'm not
upset. I had my say and so did you and the others. I feel good that at least
some people here are open minded. And I do hope ARoberts will at some point
be able to at least give this stuff a try since he's on advair and I wish
everyone here with asthma well regardless of what has been said.

Rae
Post by 00doc
00doc
Bob
2005-06-12 19:19:35 UTC
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On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:24:37 -0500, "NorthShoreCEO"
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Here's a question I've had for some time. Are all of you
atheists, or just some of you?
Faith is underrated, IMO. Several weeks ago, a female patient in her
early 60's returned to my office claiming that she had been "healed"
by an itinerate preacher who travels around the country "healing"
people in various churches. You've probably seen these guys or people
like them on T.V. It always seems like such a sham to me. But...

I had been working on her frozen shoulder, which can take months of
effort, both passive and active, to work through. Well, she came in
for her appointment recently and demonstrated an incredible
improvement in range of motion, with no pain (performed with a big
smile).

Was she cured? Was she healed? Is she a Kook? She was measurably
better, both objectively and subjectively. I scratched my head and
was happy for her.

The man said, among other things, "Your faith has made you well."
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-13 02:56:40 UTC
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Post by Bob
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:24:37 -0500, "NorthShoreCEO"
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Here's a question I've had for some time. Are all of you
atheists, or just some of you?
Faith is underrated, IMO. Several weeks ago, a female patient
in her
early 60's returned to my office claiming that she had been
"healed"
by an itinerate preacher who travels around the country
"healing"
people in various churches. You've probably seen these guys or people
like them on T.V. It always seems like such a sham to me.
But...
I had been working on her frozen shoulder, which can take
months of
effort, both passive and active, to work through. Well, she
came in
for her appointment recently and demonstrated an incredible
improvement in range of motion, with no pain (performed with a
big
smile).
Was she cured? Was she healed? Is she a Kook? She was
measurably
better, both objectively and subjectively. I scratched my head and
was happy for her.
The man said, among other things, "Your faith has made you
well."
Maybe if Rae was a patient of yours you would have been happy for
her, too. ;-)

I asked the question because atheists are the one group I can
spot a mile away, due to their cynical, dour, negative,
defensive, smartass natures. I can't imagine why I confused some
of you for that lot, but I did.

Maybe some of you have been here too long if it's affecting your
ability to respond without......all of THIS?
Bob
2005-06-13 13:55:34 UTC
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On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 21:56:40 -0500, "NorthShoreCEO"
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Post by Bob
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:24:37 -0500, "NorthShoreCEO"
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Here's a question I've had for some time. Are all of you
atheists, or just some of you?
Faith is underrated, IMO. Several weeks ago, a female patient in her
early 60's returned to my office claiming that she had been
"healed"
by an itinerate preacher who travels around the country
"healing"
people in various churches. You've probably seen these guys or people
like them on T.V. It always seems like such a sham to me.
But...
I had been working on her frozen shoulder, which can take
months of
effort, both passive and active, to work through. Well, she
came in
for her appointment recently and demonstrated an incredible
improvement in range of motion, with no pain (performed with a big
smile).
Was she cured? Was she healed? Is she a Kook? She was
measurably
better, both objectively and subjectively. I scratched my head and
was happy for her.
The man said, among other things, "Your faith has made you
well."
Maybe if Rae was a patient of yours you would have been happy for
her, too. ;-)
Certainly. But if a stranger walked in my door all excited, telling
me that they have been cured for two weeks from a chronic condition
and showed me this powder from Ghana, I would respond the same way I
did to Rae. I would joke with her, and see what her response would
be, and then proceed from there.

There's nothing wrong with throwing down the gauntlet to see what
people are made of, especially if they come off the wall with wild
proclamations.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
I asked the question because atheists are the one group I can
spot a mile away, due to their cynical, dour, negative,
defensive, smartass natures. I can't imagine why I confused some
of you for that lot, but I did.
Some of the most bigoted, judgmental and dangerous people on this
earth are not atheists, and some of the greatest smartasses I know are
not atheists. Damn it...
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-13 14:43:53 UTC
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Post by Bob
Some of the most bigoted, judgmental and dangerous people on
this
earth are not atheists, and some of the greatest smartasses I
know are
not atheists. Damn it...
Can you upload a few of them for me? I'd really like the
opportunity to change my mind about this. It doesn't help that I
live in a town with one of the nations biggest PITA atheists.
Bob
2005-06-13 19:16:57 UTC
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On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:43:53 -0500, "NorthShoreCEO"
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Post by Bob
Some of the most bigoted, judgmental and dangerous people on
this
earth are not atheists, and some of the greatest smartasses I
know are
not atheists. Damn it...
Can you upload a few of them for me? I'd really like the
opportunity to change my mind about this. It doesn't help that I
live in a town with one of the nations biggest PITA atheists.
Here's one who really hams it up...
Loading Image...

If this individual is dyslexic, certainly he/she believes in Dog...
Loading Image...
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-13 21:21:09 UTC
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Post by Bob
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Can you upload a few of them for me? I'd really like the
opportunity to change my mind about this. It doesn't help that I
live in a town with one of the nations biggest PITA atheists.
Here's one who really hams it up...
http://www.n101.com/HealthNotes/HN/Food_Guide/Pita_Bread.jpg
If this individual is dyslexic, certainly he/she believes in
Dog...
http://www.dogsinthenews.com/issues/0105/pictures/tricks.gif
You're a nut, Bob. Just like my chiropractor. Must be something
you learn in school.....lol.
aroberts
2005-06-13 19:59:19 UTC
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Post by Bob
Certainly. But if a stranger walked in my door all excited, telling
me that they have been cured for two weeks from a chronic condition
and showed me this powder from Ghana, I would respond the same way I
did to Rae. I would joke with her, and see what her response would
be, and then proceed from there.
There's nothing wrong with throwing down the gauntlet to see what
people are made of, especially if they come off the wall with wild
proclamations.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
I asked the question because atheists are the one group I can
spot a mile away, due to their cynical, dour, negative,
defensive, smartass natures. I can't imagine why I confused some
of you for that lot, but I did.
Some of the most bigoted, judgmental and dangerous people on this
earth are not atheists, and some of the greatest smartasses I know are
not atheists. Damn it...
Once again, you put it perfectly. I'm not sure how one gets from
questioning a treatment to being an atheist. As a Christian, I believe
that God was kind enough to grant us the ability of critical thought.
I guess that he missed me when he was handing out radar to detect
atheists a mile away. Good.
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-13 21:21:57 UTC
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Post by aroberts
Post by Bob
Certainly. But if a stranger walked in my door all excited,
telling
me that they have been cured for two weeks from a chronic
condition
and showed me this powder from Ghana, I would respond the same
way I
did to Rae. I would joke with her, and see what her response
would
be, and then proceed from there.
There's nothing wrong with throwing down the gauntlet to see
what
people are made of, especially if they come off the wall with
wild
proclamations.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
I asked the question because atheists are the one group I can
spot a mile away, due to their cynical, dour, negative,
defensive, smartass natures. I can't imagine why I confused
some
of you for that lot, but I did.
Some of the most bigoted, judgmental and dangerous people on
this
earth are not atheists, and some of the greatest smartasses I
know are
not atheists. Damn it...
Once again, you put it perfectly. I'm not sure how one gets
from
questioning a treatment to being an atheist. As a Christian, I believe
that God was kind enough to grant us the ability of critical
thought.
I guess that he missed me when he was handing out radar to
detect
atheists a mile away. Good.
Questioning a treatment? Now THAT'S funny!!!!
aroberts
2005-06-13 23:18:32 UTC
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Post by NorthShoreCEO
Questioning a treatment? Now THAT'S funny!!!!
Maybe I'm making a distinction that you are not. When you first posted
about antibiotics being capable of treating asthma, you came armed with
links to asthmastory.com. and Dr. Hahn. There were multiple links to
research in that field, including those that supported his treatment
with controlled studies. These, coupled with your dispassionate
recounting of your success, convinced me that there was a lot to this.

Please go back and read Rae's first posting. It reads like a pretty
the typical spam that we have experienced here before:

"You MUST read this"
"amazing ALL NATURAL powder"
"amazing powder from Ghana"
"cure"

Even though she proclaimed no interest in the company, we have had
others who have said the same thing, only to find out that they were
MLM (technically not part of the company).

Instead of research, as you provided, there are only testimonials. I
choose not to give equal credibility to these two, because it's too
easy to fabricate testimonials (not Rae, but websites in general).

Do I believe Rae when she says that she has been helped? Yes, I do.
Subsequent postings by her have convinced me of her sincerity. I would
still like to see something more than testimonials about safety and
efficacy. There is a large difference between off-label use of an
approved antibiotic and just another alternative treatment floating
around the internet.

It will be interesting to see if any research will be done to determine
its safety profile. For all our sakes, I pray that it will pan out.
After all, God listens to skeptics too.
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-14 00:19:22 UTC
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Post by aroberts
Do I believe Rae when she says that she has been helped? Yes,
I do.
Subsequent postings by her have convinced me of her sincerity.
Lucky Rae!

I'm convinced my message is falling on deaf ears, so I'll end
this now.
ARoberts
2005-06-14 00:38:04 UTC
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Post by NorthShoreCEO
Post by aroberts
Do I believe Rae when she says that she has been helped? Yes, I do.
Subsequent postings by her have convinced me of her sincerity.
Lucky Rae!
I'm convinced my message is falling on deaf ears, so I'll end this now.
Yeah, you probably have some religious persecution to do.
Bob
2005-06-14 00:24:24 UTC
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Post by aroberts
Post by Bob
Certainly. But if a stranger walked in my door all excited, telling
me that they have been cured for two weeks from a chronic condition
and showed me this powder from Ghana, I would respond the same way I
did to Rae. I would joke with her, and see what her response would
be, and then proceed from there.
There's nothing wrong with throwing down the gauntlet to see what
people are made of, especially if they come off the wall with wild
proclamations.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
I asked the question because atheists are the one group I can
spot a mile away, due to their cynical, dour, negative,
defensive, smartass natures. I can't imagine why I confused some
of you for that lot, but I did.
Some of the most bigoted, judgmental and dangerous people on this
earth are not atheists, and some of the greatest smartasses I know are
not atheists. Damn it...
Once again, you put it perfectly. I'm not sure how one gets from
questioning a treatment to being an atheist. As a Christian, I believe
that God was kind enough to grant us the ability of critical thought.
What was HE THINKING???!!!
Post by aroberts
I guess that he missed me when he was handing out radar to detect
atheists a mile away. Good.
No problem; here's your starter kit.
Just put it on, look up, and you're Good.

Loading Image...
00doc
2005-06-13 04:27:27 UTC
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Post by NorthShoreCEO
The fact is, a doctor is conducting the trial and it looks
promising.
It looks like he has finished conducting the trial and didn't come up
with much due to terminal flaws in his study design. I think the most
you can say is that he has provided some justification for doing a
decent small pilot study. That study would then give preliminary data
and perhaps justify a larger trial. Calling what he did anything that
implies scientific validity is being overly generous.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
BMJ picked it up and put it in their news section.
Eh - Presswatch (not the BMJ directly) put it in the space that the
BMJ gave them to report on media reporting. What is news (according to
Presswatch) is that someone is claiming a cure for asthma - not that
there is a drug that does or doesn't work.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
It's possible the original poster had asthma that was primarily
related to hay fever, which is why it cleared her (?) asthma.
Sure that is possible. It is also possible that "she" is NK Eccles
himself or that she is associated with the site selling the product
(if those two are different things).
Post by NorthShoreCEO
She doesn't appear to be selling anything.
Huh? Did you read the first post?

That is exactly how a sales pitch appears.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Why everyone always
has to jump on people like this (with few exceptions - like those
selling ionizers) is beyond me,
People get tired and ticked off over the regular barage of scam
artists that come to health groups claiming cures for all that ails
you.

Maybe she is sincere. But you have to admit that that first post came
off sounding like a sales pitch.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
but then, I know certain
supplements work and many others here don't believe that because
they've never done the research, they've just had their typical
skeptical knee jerk response and called such postings snake oil.
I have no doubt that many supplements have a lot of promise and in
some cases proved efficacy. But I'll bet that for just about any one
you can name there is at least some supporting evidence (by that I
mean studies of a much higher claibre than the one "survey" supporting
yamoa).
Post by NorthShoreCEO
There's a pathologist at the University of MD School of Medicine
who has patented something that has been shown to shrink tumors,
and enhance chemo meds, while lessening its ill effects. He
can't get funding for large human trials here, just as Dr. Hahn
has gotten little funding for large scale trials. A study was
done in Helsinki on breast cancer patients with great results.
You'll find things in Medscape about this, but mostly written by
the pathologist himself, and a few others who have been
interested.
Right - but you will find them. You will find an established
univeristy affiliated researcher who has published in legitimate peer
reviewed journals. I agree that by holding an overly stringent
standard you risk missing some promising therapies and that it is a
shame that we don't devote enough money to medical research to
investigate all the treatments that have shown early promise.
Certainly not everything without a large radomized placebo controlled
trial supporting it can be discarded as snake oil. But, geeze, you
have to have some standards.

You really are mixing apples and oranges with this comparison.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
That's the way these things go. The initial
researcher first publishes something about his findings and hopes
that someone will challenge him or her and conduct their own
study.
Eccles hasn't published these results. Unless he generates
substantially better data I would be very surprised to see that he
ever does.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
That's good science. They want their theory to either be
dispelled or validated - by several others.
Sure it is.

But a guy who runs his own alternative medicine clinic (and so is
biased) recruiting a bunch of his own patients (who are biased) and
conducting a non-blinded study relying on self reports and only
getting 60% of them back then trying to draw conclusions from this
data is not good science.

Claiming a sure and marketting the product based upon this data is
certainly not good science.

While we are discussing good science I would note that he claims to
have never encountered any "serious irreversible" side effects but
does then mention a few that could potentially be serious depending on
the situation but never gives any real accounting of side effect
rates or particulars. Presenting the positive and hiding the negative
is much more characteristic of a sales pitch than a report of good
science.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
This appears to be a
relatively new product. Time will tell if it can help hay fever
sufferers, but it appears to have helped Rae. If, in time,
others conduct studies that prove out this initial study, I know
there will be no apologies from any of you - already having been
on the receiving end of the pitbull attacks myself.
Look - if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a
duck - chances are it's a duck. Rae's first post sure looks like a
sock puppet testimonial from a scam artist. It just does. Even if it
is conclusively shown that she is sincere in all of this the fact will
still remain that the post sure looks like a sales pitch and I don't
think I will owe anyone any apologies for saying so.

For the record - I don't claim any knowledge that the stuff doesn't
work - just that there is no substantial evidence to suggest that it
does and that the one person proposing it here sounds an awful lot
like a shill. If next week's NEJM publishes a definitive study by
Eccles showing that yamoa is the cure for all things respiratory I
would still stand behind everything I have said so far. I would use it
and prescribe it but I would still say that up until that study there
was not even half way decent evidence for it and that Rae sounded like
she was selling the stuff.
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Here's a question I've had for some time. Are all of you
atheists, or just some of you?
I don't see how it is relevant.
--
00doc
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-13 12:38:45 UTC
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Post by 00doc
Maybe she is sincere. But you have to admit that that first
post came off sounding like a sales pitch.
Not to me it didn't. And again, I don't care how siplistic his
study was. I know there are people who could show up here saying
they've found relief from their asthma and allergies when they
started taking MSM and the regulars would pound them, and it
would make no difference at all that many people - including me -
found allergy relief taking MSM - because you all have this
mindset that never varies. Shoot first, ask questions later.
00doc
2005-06-14 02:27:33 UTC
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Post by NorthShoreCEO
Post by 00doc
Maybe she is sincere. But you have to admit that that first
post came off sounding like a sales pitch.
Not to me it didn't.
Then I am sorry - but you simply did not read it carefully. Look at
the list of terms that ARoberts posted. It had all the earmarks of
spam.

And again, I don't care how siplistic his
Post by NorthShoreCEO
study was. I know there are people who could show up here saying
they've found relief from their asthma and allergies when they
started taking MSM and the regulars would pound them, and it
would make no difference at all that many people - including me -
found allergy relief taking MSM - because you all have this
mindset that never varies. Shoot first, ask questions later.
Eh - I really think it depends on whether he comes off and trying to
sell the stuff.

If he just says in regular English that it seems to be helping him
then I think a polite, albeit probably skeptical, conversation would
ensue.

If he uses exclaimations commonly found only in marketing materials
and then tries to direct people to a specific source to purchase it
(as Rae did) then he will be assumed to be a spammer and will be
pounded - and will deserve it.
--
00doc
Rae
2005-06-20 01:41:54 UTC
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Here's a question I've had for some time. Are all of you atheists, or
just some of you?
In regards to that question NorthShoreCEO, thought I would post something
below that someone just forwarded me.

Subject: Do Barbers Exist??

This is one of the best explanations of why God allows pain and
suffering that I have seen. It's an explanation other people will
understand.
A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard
trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects.
When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said:
"I don't believe that God exists."

"Why do you say that?" asked the customer.

"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God
doesn't
exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people?
Would
there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither
suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all
of
these things."

The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he
didn't want to start an argument. The barber finished his job and
the
customer left the shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a
man
in
the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He
looked dirty and unkempt.

The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he
said
to the barber: "You know what? Barbers do not exist."

"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber. "I am here, and I
am a
barber. And I just worked on you!"

"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they
did,
there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards,
like
that man outside."

"Ah, but barbers DO exist! What happens is, people do not come to
me."

"Exactly!" affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES
exist! What happens, is, people don't go to Him and do not look for
Him.
That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

-----------------------


If you think God exists, send this to other people---If you think God
does not exist, delete it!
Merlin
2005-06-20 03:36:57 UTC
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G'day, Rae, of course it just may be that gods haircut rates might be
too expensive, also the person should not be forced to have a haircut
if he doesn't wish to.
Cheers, Merlin.
Post by Rae
Here's a question I've had for some time. Are all of you atheists, or
just some of you?
In regards to that question NorthShoreCEO, thought I would post something
below that someone just forwarded me.
Subject: Do Barbers Exist??
This is one of the best explanations of why God allows pain and
suffering that I have seen. It's an explanation other people will
understand.
A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard
trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects.
"I don't believe that God exists."
"Why do you say that?" asked the customer.
"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God
doesn't
exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people?
Would
there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither
suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all
of
these things."
The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he
didn't want to start an argument. The barber finished his job and
the
customer left the shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a
man
in
the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He
looked dirty and unkempt.
The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he
said
to the barber: "You know what? Barbers do not exist."
"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber. "I am here, and I
am a
barber. And I just worked on you!"
"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they
did,
there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards,
like
that man outside."
"Ah, but barbers DO exist! What happens is, people do not come to
me."
"Exactly!" affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES
exist! What happens, is, people don't go to Him and do not look for
Him.
That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."
-----------------------
If you think God exists, send this to other people---If you think God
does not exist, delete it!
00doc
2005-06-13 03:52:18 UTC
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Post by NorthShoreCEO
I followed the link and it's the news section of the BMJ. It was
newsworthy to them, even if it isn't to some of you. Or did you
think I trumped up the domain? Sheesh.
Well.....

"UK health news
(daily summaries of health stories appearing in UK national
newspapers,
prepared for bmj.com by Presswatch Media, an international media
monitoring service) "

It sounds like they just devote a little space to report what is being
reported. They don't even put the list together themselves. I think it
would be more more accurate to say that they thought it was notable
that this is something news outlets are reporting. Really it would be
even more accurate to say that they thought it was notable that their
subcontracted media watch service thought it was notable that this is
being reported.

I think it is more a service to let the docs know what their patients
are seeing than any kind of endorsement of the work. I have seen other
journals do similar things in the past.
--
00doc
NorthShoreCEO
2005-06-13 12:39:41 UTC
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Post by 00doc
Post by NorthShoreCEO
I followed the link and it's the news section of the BMJ. It
was
newsworthy to them, even if it isn't to some of you. Or did
you
think I trumped up the domain? Sheesh.
Well.....
"UK health news
(daily summaries of health stories appearing in UK national
newspapers,
prepared for bmj.com by Presswatch Media, an international
media monitoring service) "
It sounds like they just devote a little space to report what
is being reported. They don't even put the list together
themselves. I think it would be more more accurate to say that
they thought it was notable that this is something news outlets
are reporting. Really it would be even more accurate to say
that they thought it was notable that their subcontracted media
watch service thought it was notable that this is being
reported.
I think it is more a service to let the docs know what their
patients are seeing than any kind of endorsement of the work. I
have seen other journals do similar things in the past.
--
00doc
You assume too much when it favors your side....lol.
00doc
2005-06-13 03:39:48 UTC
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Post by Alison Chaiken
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Sounds like it may be more helpful for those who have hay fever
related asthma.
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/uknews/news20020813.shtml#5
If you follow this link you find that the text you posted comes from a
newspaper called the _Daily Mail_, not from the _British Medical
Journal_ as the domain name suggests. If we go to the _Daily Mail_
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/womenfamily.html?in_article_id=133144&in_page_id=1799
To me the key paragraph is
Early statistics from a study by Dr Nyjon Eccles and
nutritional therapist Althea Myrie at Harley Street's Chiron
Clinic show that 48 per cent of Yamoa users claim they have
been completely cured of hay fever, and a third believe
they've seen a marked improvement.
The phrase "completely cured" should raise a red flag in the mind of
any informed reader. "users claim" doesn't sound like scientific
evidence to me. Where are the hard numeric spirometry data? But
let's go to PubMed and see if Eccles' research was published. Aha,
there are no hits for "yamoa" anywhere in all of PubMed!
If you look up NK Eccles on pubmed you come up with one publication on
a wound healing device (magnets - also a small study of 26 patients).
There is an N Eccles (no middle initial given) associated with the
University of Wales who published some molecular biology/cell biology
studies in the early to mid '90's but it is not clear whether or not
this is the same person. Suffice it to say that this person has never
before published a clinical drug trial or on respiratory disease.

If you go to the website and look under "asthma survey results" they
do give more information. The results he gives are impressive but they
are based on 200 surveys mailed to 70 asthmatics with 120 surveys
returned. They give "before and after" stats but they do not say how
many sets of paired "before and after" data they have. He also does
not say of the reults are statistically significant.

All of the data is self reported. Since the reponse rate was so low
this is an even bigger problem than it normally would be (what was the
experience of those who didn't respond?). He never states how the
patients were recruited. He does say that he was inspired to do the
study when he learned that some of his patients were already taking
the stuff. Presumably at least some of the people he studied were
amongst those who came in with prexisting positive experience with it.
It does not appear that the study was blinded and since he runs an
alternative medicine clinic I think it is safe to say that his
patients probably had some bias in favor of the powder.

The Chiron Clinic Website states that the work was done in 2002. It
would be interesting to know if he ever submitted it for publication.
I doubt it would be published in any reputable journal if it was. To
say this work is preliminary is an understatement. it certainly doe
snot provide meaningful support for claims of efficacy.
--
00doc
Rae
2005-06-14 03:24:34 UTC
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Post by Alison Chaiken
Post by NorthShoreCEO
Sounds like it may be more helpful for those who have hay fever
related asthma.
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/uknews/news20020813.shtml#5
If you follow this link you find that the text you posted comes from a
newspaper called the _Daily Mail_, not from the _British Medical
Journal_ as the domain name suggests. If we go to the _Daily Mail_
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/womenfamily.html?in_article_id=133144&in_page_id=1799
To me the key paragraph is
Early statistics from a study by Dr Nyjon Eccles and
nutritional therapist Althea Myrie at Harley Street's Chiron
Clinic show that 48 per cent of Yamoa users claim they have
been completely cured of hay fever, and a third believe
they've seen a marked improvement.
The phrase "completely cured" should raise a red flag in the mind of
any informed reader. "users claim" doesn't sound like scientific
evidence to me. Where are the hard numeric spirometry data? But
let's go to PubMed and see if Eccles' research was published. Aha,
there are no hits for "yamoa" anywhere in all of PubMed!
Again, not that it matters to me whether it was published there or not, you
are misinformed about tests which have or have not been done on this product
Ms. Chaiken! If you really cared to find out something about it rather than
just find fault, I would think you would have at least learned the botonical
name for yomoa, "Funtumia elastica", and then have conducted a more thorough
search before declaring "Aha, there are no hits for "yamoa" anywhere in all
of PubMed!" as though that fact alone discredited it's potential.

Below is one report taken from your revered pubmed website. However it was a
study for it's use in the treatment of malaria rather than as an asthma
treatment. There are other references as well.

1: J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Apr 26;98(3):281-5.

In vitro antiplasmodial activity and cytotoxicity of 33 West African plants
used for treatment of malaria.

Zirihi GN, Mambu L, Guede-Guina F, Bodo B, Grellier P.

Laboratoire de Botanique, UFR Biosciences, Universite de Cocody, 22 BP 582
Abidjan 22, Ivory Coast.

Thirty-three plants commonly used in West tropical Africa by traditional
healers for the treatment of malaria were collected and ethanolic extracts
were obtained by decoction. The antiplasmodial activity of extracts was
evaluated in vitro against the chloroquine-resistant FcB1 strain of
Plasmodium falciparum. Cytotoxicity was determined on the human MRC-5 and
the rat L-6 cell lines. Of the 33 plant extracts, eight (24.5%) showed
significant antimalarial activity (IC(50) values ranging from 2.3 to 13.7
microg/ml), 14 (42.5%) weak activity (IC(50) values ranging from 15 to 50
microg/ml) and 11 (33%) appeared inactive (IC(50) values >50 microg/ml).
Five plants were of particular interest, associating good antiplasmodial
activity and weak cytotoxicity. These five included Nauclea latifolia with
known antiplasmodial activity and four, Fagara macrophylla, Funtumia
elastica, Phyllanthus muellerianus and Rauvolfia vomitoria, for which the
description of antiplasmodial activity is entirely novel.

PMID: 15814260 [PubMed - in process]


Rae
aroberts
2005-06-14 16:11:15 UTC
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In the references that I found for Funtumia Elastica, there appear to
be four steroidal alkaloids that can be extracted from the plant:
holarrhetine, conessine, holarrhesine and isoconessimine.

That could explain some anti-inflammatory activity. Many steroidal
alkaloids exhibit cytotoxicity and carcinogenic activity. The question
is: Is one just trading one steroid for another when using yamoa? Only
clinical studies will tell--my original point.
Rae
2005-06-14 17:21:12 UTC
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....
Five plants were of particular interest, *associating good antiplasmodial
activity and weak cytotoxicity*.

These five included Nauclea latifolia with
known antiplasmodial activity and four, Fagara macrophylla, *Funtumia
elastica*, Phyllanthus muellerianus and Rauvolfia vomitoria, for which the
description of antiplasmodial activity is entirely novel.

citation:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15814260&query_hl=1
Post by aroberts
In the references that I found for Funtumia Elastica, there appear to
holarrhetine, conessine, holarrhesine and isoconessimine.
That could explain some anti-inflammatory activity. Many steroidal
alkaloids exhibit cytotoxicity and carcinogenic activity. The question
is: Is one just trading one steroid for another when using yamoa? Only
clinical studies will tell--my original point.
aroberts
2005-06-14 21:23:50 UTC
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Post by Rae
Post by aroberts
In the references that I found for Funtumia Elastica, there appear to
holarrhetine, conessine, holarrhesine and isoconessimine.
That could explain some anti-inflammatory activity. Many steroidal
alkaloids exhibit cytotoxicity and carcinogenic activity. The question
is: Is one just trading one steroid for another when using yamoa? Only
clinical studies will tell--my original point.
Five plants were of particular interest, *associating good antiplasmodial
activity and weak cytotoxicity*.
These five included Nauclea latifolia with
known antiplasmodial activity and four, Fagara macrophylla, *Funtumia
elastica*, Phyllanthus muellerianus and Rauvolfia vomitoria, for which the
description of antiplasmodial activity is entirely novel.
Of course, there are no plasmodia involved in asthma, but as in the
citation you posted, certainly in malaria.

Again, while I could find no direct application for respiratory
problems within any of the citations that I found, I can see where it
could offer some anti-inflammatory action because of the presence of
the steroidal alkaloids.

I am wondering if these compounds would have less (or for that matter,
more) side-effects than currently-used steroids. It would nice to find
a treatment with the powerful anti-inflammatory properties of steroids
without the miserable problems associated with them. Have you noticed
any side effects (weight gain, insomnia, etc.) with yamoa, or is it too
early to know?

As a side note, one other application of one of its constituent
alkaloids is for the treatment of dysentery (in India).
Rae
2005-06-14 22:12:16 UTC
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I don't really know what the side affects of them are. But I've had no
insomnia or weight gain (at least not yet).

And its hard for me to say really because I was just recovering about a week
from being confined to bed for over a week, and I'm not sure what was from
the powder and what was just from my system trying to regain its strength. I
had coughed so much and struggled to breathe for so long, that I was weak as
a kitten for about a week or longer after I was over the worst and able to
breathe with the inhaler again. That was about the time when I started
taking the powder. So everything felt strange to me then. At that time, as I
got my strength back and took the powder, I was having a little trouble with
my ability to concentrate very long on difficult mental tasks for about two
or three days. I wondered at the time if it was from the powder because the
first day I accidentally took twice as much as they recommend. But then that
went away on about the third or fourth day. So I can't say if that was from
the powder or just a result of recovering from the infection & being in bed
so long.
Now that I have fully recovered from that episode, it is now day 11 (I
started taking it on the 4th) and I notice nothing at all when I take the
powder either right after drinking it or later (as far as side affects go).
I must mention too, that I have always been extremely sensitive to
medications and herbs, etc., of all kinds. It only takes a little of
anything for me to feel something or have a negative reaction. Maybe Renato
can answer this better when he starts taking it.

Rae
Post by aroberts
Post by Rae
Post by aroberts
In the references that I found for Funtumia Elastica, there appear to
holarrhetine, conessine, holarrhesine and isoconessimine.
That could explain some anti-inflammatory activity. Many steroidal
alkaloids exhibit cytotoxicity and carcinogenic activity. The question
is: Is one just trading one steroid for another when using yamoa? Only
clinical studies will tell--my original point.
Five plants were of particular interest, *associating good antiplasmodial
activity and weak cytotoxicity*.
These five included Nauclea latifolia with
known antiplasmodial activity and four, Fagara macrophylla, *Funtumia
elastica*, Phyllanthus muellerianus and Rauvolfia vomitoria, for which the
description of antiplasmodial activity is entirely novel.
Of course, there are no plasmodia involved in asthma, but as in the
citation you posted, certainly in malaria.
Again, while I could find no direct application for respiratory
problems within any of the citations that I found, I can see where it
could offer some anti-inflammatory action because of the presence of
the steroidal alkaloids.
I am wondering if these compounds would have less (or for that matter,
more) side-effects than currently-used steroids. It would nice to find
a treatment with the powerful anti-inflammatory properties of steroids
without the miserable problems associated with them. Have you noticed
any side effects (weight gain, insomnia, etc.) with yamoa, or is it too
early to know?
As a side note, one other application of one of its constituent
alkaloids is for the treatment of dysentery (in India).
00doc
2005-06-15 02:36:03 UTC
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Post by Rae
I don't really know what the side affects of them are. But I've had no
insomnia or weight gain (at least not yet).
IOW - you admit that you don't really know what the risks are and you
have just a vague idea what the benefits are - yet you seem mystified
and offended that we have not all jumped up to embrace it as a cure?

I admit it is an intereesting compound that has some promise. I hope
it gets further studied. But you are way ahead of yourself.
--
00doc
Rae
2005-06-15 13:24:45 UTC
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Post by Rae
I don't really know what the side affects of them are. But I've had no
insomnia or weight gain (at least not yet).
IOW - you admit that you don't really know what the risks are and you have
just a vague idea what the benefits are -
No. I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that I don't know what the
typical side affects of steroid type drugs are. He had asked me if this had
those types of side affects. I'm not really familiar with steroid side
affects other than what I've heard about body builders going nuts and
ruining their organs. Please enlighten me and I can tell you.


yet you seem mystified
and offended that we have not all jumped up to embrace it as a cure?
I admit it is an intereesting compound that has some promise. I hope it
gets further studied. But you are way ahead of yourself.
Perhaps I am. For I am still not even half way through the treatment and am
probably not 100% cured yet. I was just a bit excited because its the first
thing in the way of "all natural" that has had such good results for me and
is showing great promise so far. I would be happy even if its just a
"marked improvement" and not a full cure.

I wish someone would study it further. If they studied it for malaria, I
don't understand why someone hasn't studied it for asthma since its used in
Africa for that.
--
00doc
Rae
2005-06-14 22:16:39 UTC
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Raw Message
BTW, I have no idea what "antiplasmodial activity" or "plasmodial activity"
is. I do know however what they mean by cytotoxicity which is why I thought
it was relevant regardless of what its being used for.
Post by aroberts
Post by Rae
Post by aroberts
In the references that I found for Funtumia Elastica, there appear to
holarrhetine, conessine, holarrhesine and isoconessimine.
That could explain some anti-inflammatory activity. Many steroidal
alkaloids exhibit cytotoxicity and carcinogenic activity. The question
is: Is one just trading one steroid for another when using yamoa? Only
clinical studies will tell--my original point.
Five plants were of particular interest, *associating good antiplasmodial
activity and weak cytotoxicity*.
These five included Nauclea latifolia with
known antiplasmodial activity and four, Fagara macrophylla, *Funtumia
elastica*, Phyllanthus muellerianus and Rauvolfia vomitoria, for which the
description of antiplasmodial activity is entirely novel.
Of course, there are no plasmodia involved in asthma, but as in the
citation you posted, certainly in malaria.
Again, while I could find no direct application for respiratory
problems within any of the citations that I found, I can see where it
could offer some anti-inflammatory action because of the presence of
the steroidal alkaloids.
I am wondering if these compounds would have less (or for that matter,
more) side-effects than currently-used steroids. It would nice to find
a treatment with the powerful anti-inflammatory properties of steroids
without the miserable problems associated with them. Have you noticed
any side effects (weight gain, insomnia, etc.) with yamoa, or is it too
early to know?
As a side note, one other application of one of its constituent
alkaloids is for the treatment of dysentery (in India).
aroberts
2005-06-15 00:28:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Rae
I don't really know what the side affects of them are. But I've had no
insomnia or weight gain (at least not yet).
And its hard for me to say really because I was just recovering about a week
from being confined to bed for over a week, and I'm not sure what was from
the powder and what was just from my system trying to regain its strength. I
had coughed so much and struggled to breathe for so long, that I was weak as
a kitten for about a week or longer after I was over the worst and able to
breathe with the inhaler again. That was about the time when I started
taking the powder. So everything felt strange to me then. At that time, as I
got my strength back and took the powder, I was having a little trouble with
my ability to concentrate very long on difficult mental tasks for about two
or three days. I wondered at the time if it was from the powder because the
first day I accidentally took twice as much as they recommend. But then that
went away on about the third or fourth day. So I can't say if that was from
the powder or just a result of recovering from the infection & being in bed
so long.
Now that I have fully recovered from that episode, it is now day 11 (I
started taking it on the 4th) and I notice nothing at all when I take the
powder either right after drinking it or later (as far as side affects go).
I must mention too, that I have always been extremely sensitive to
medications and herbs, etc., of all kinds. It only takes a little of
anything for me to feel something or have a negative reaction. Maybe Renato
can answer this better when he starts taking it.
Rae
Plasmodia refers to a type (well, actually four types) of protozoan,
the critters that cause malaria.

I am the same way with meds and herbs, and reluctant to take
combinations of the two without checking for interactions. I'm looking
forward to hearing of Renato's progress (and yours as well).

Also.......my apologies for the shabby treatment at first. I construed
your excitement as advertising hype. I was wrong.
Rae
2005-06-15 13:32:18 UTC
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Raw Message
Thank you. I appreciate that. And I apologize for accusing you of being a
drug company rep!
Post by aroberts
Post by Rae
I don't really know what the side affects of them are. But I've had no
insomnia or weight gain (at least not yet).
And its hard for me to say really because I was just recovering about a week
from being confined to bed for over a week, and I'm not sure what was from
the powder and what was just from my system trying to regain its strength. I
had coughed so much and struggled to breathe for so long, that I was weak as
a kitten for about a week or longer after I was over the worst and able to
breathe with the inhaler again. That was about the time when I started
taking the powder. So everything felt strange to me then. At that time, as I
got my strength back and took the powder, I was having a little trouble with
my ability to concentrate very long on difficult mental tasks for about two
or three days. I wondered at the time if it was from the powder because the
first day I accidentally took twice as much as they recommend. But then that
went away on about the third or fourth day. So I can't say if that was from
the powder or just a result of recovering from the infection & being in bed
so long.
Now that I have fully recovered from that episode, it is now day 11 (I
started taking it on the 4th) and I notice nothing at all when I take the
powder either right after drinking it or later (as far as side affects go).
I must mention too, that I have always been extremely sensitive to
medications and herbs, etc., of all kinds. It only takes a little of
anything for me to feel something or have a negative reaction. Maybe Renato
can answer this better when he starts taking it.
Rae
Plasmodia refers to a type (well, actually four types) of protozoan,
the critters that cause malaria.
I am the same way with meds and herbs, and reluctant to take
combinations of the two without checking for interactions. I'm looking
forward to hearing of Renato's progress (and yours as well).
Also.......my apologies for the shabby treatment at first. I construed
your excitement as advertising hype. I was wrong.
Bob
2005-06-15 13:45:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by aroberts
I am the same way with meds and herbs, and reluctant to take
combinations of the two without checking for interactions. I'm looking
forward to hearing of Renato's progress (and yours as well).
Also.......my apologies for the shabby treatment at first. I construed
your excitement as advertising hype. I was wrong.
That's admirable, but playing devil's advocate, here is something I
thought might help folks better understand the sensitivites of those
who care about such things as curative hyperbole.

Following is one of many commercial websites which sell Yamoa. Is
there any wonder why we should question these curative claims?

From the site:

Why Asthma Occurs
The body requires 6% carbon dioxide to carry out normal bodily
functions. Hyperventilation will cause the level of carbon dioxide in
the airways to drop to a low level. Low levels of carbon dioxide in
the body prevent oxygen from being released from the blood to supply
the tissues. Incidence of Asthma Up 250% In Last 20 Years
According to this study, the number of adults suffering from asthma
has more than doubled in the last 2 decades. Steroid prescriptions
have been increasing 6-fold.

Tissues staved of oxygen causes the body to over breathe, releasing
more carbon dioxide. The body compensates for this loss of carbon
dioxide by causing the bronchial tubes to spasm, (constrict), and
produce phlegm to keep carbon dioxide in the body.

http://www.holisticoptions.com/yamoa.htm

Sound familiar? While Rae may be for real, there are suckers born
every minute.
aroberts
2005-06-15 15:13:05 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by aroberts
Also.......my apologies for the shabby treatment at first. I construed
your excitement as advertising hype. I was wrong.
That's admirable, but playing devil's advocate, here is something I
thought might help folks better understand the sensitivites of those
who care about such things as curative hyperbole.

Following is one of many commercial websites which sell Yamoa. Is
there any wonder why we should question these curative claims?
Why Asthma Occurs
The body requires 6% carbon dioxide to carry out normal bodily
functions. Hyperventilation will cause the level of carbon dioxide in
the airways to drop to a low level. Low levels of carbon dioxide in
the body prevent oxygen from being released from the blood to supply
the tissues. Incidence of Asthma Up 250% In Last 20 Years
According to this study, the number of adults suffering from asthma
has more than doubled in the last 2 decades. Steroid prescriptions
have been increasing 6-fold.


Tissues staved of oxygen causes the body to over breathe, releasing
more carbon dioxide. The body compensates for this loss of carbon
dioxide by causing the bronchial tubes to spasm, (constrict), and
produce phlegm to keep carbon dioxide in the body.


http://www.holisticoptions.com­/yamoa.htm


Sound familiar? While Rae may be for real, there are suckers born
every minute.


Yes. My apology was for questioning her sincerity. I remain skeptical
(but interested in the possibilities) about the substance. It may be a
rare case of the substance being better than those who are selling it.
Only research will tell.
Evgenij Barsukov
2005-06-16 15:02:02 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Bob
Why Asthma Occurs
The body requires 6% carbon dioxide to carry out normal bodily
functions. Hyperventilation will cause the level of carbon dioxide in
the airways to drop to a low level. Low levels of carbon dioxide in
the body prevent oxygen from being released from the blood to supply
the tissues. Incidence of Asthma Up 250% In Last 20 Years
According to this study, the number of adults suffering from asthma
has more than doubled in the last 2 decades. Steroid prescriptions
have been increasing 6-fold.
Tissues staved of oxygen causes the body to over breathe, releasing
more carbon dioxide. The body compensates for this loss of carbon
dioxide by causing the bronchial tubes to spasm, (constrict), and
produce phlegm to keep carbon dioxide in the body.
http://www.holisticoptions.com/yamoa.htm
Sound familiar? While Rae may be for real, there are suckers born
every minute.
It is amazing that to advertize one product, they cut-and-paste
justification for another, complectely unrelated "product".
Somebody is very lazy.
If they would search the web a bit longer they might have found
the web-sites discussing effect of long-term antibiotics on asthma,
and cut-and-paste from there. It would make a lot more sense, because
if this herb is effective, it is because of its antimicrobal (similar
to antibiotics) or antiinflamatory (similar to steroids) effect rather
than anything else. I would bet on the first one, because only steroids
that have some structural equivalent in natural human body steroids are
usualy antiinflamatory.

Regards,
Evgenij
00doc
2005-06-15 02:34:07 UTC
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Post by Rae
BTW, I have no idea what "antiplasmodial activity" or "plasmodial
activity" is. I do know however what they mean by cytotoxicity which
is why I thought it was relevant regardless of what its being used
for.
Plasmodium is the genera of organism that causes malaria. Cytotoxicity
refers to a substance being toxic to cells (bacterial or human).
Neither has much, if anything, to do with asthma.

Again, I an not saying that any of this suggests it isn't effective in
asthma (or malaria). I hope it is. It is just that it provides not a
shread of evidence in favor of being useful for asthma.
--
00doc
Rae
2005-06-15 13:28:35 UTC
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Post by 00doc
Post by Rae
BTW, I have no idea what "antiplasmodial activity" or "plasmodial
activity" is. I do know however what they mean by cytotoxicity which
is why I thought it was relevant regardless of what its being used
for.
Plasmodium is the genera of organism that causes malaria. Cytotoxicity
refers to a substance being toxic to cells (bacterial or human). Neither
has much, if anything, to do with asthma.
But that study suggests at least that it is not toxic if you do try it for
asthma. (Again which is why I posted it)
Post by 00doc
Again, I an not saying that any of this suggests it isn't effective in
asthma (or malaria). I hope it is. It is just that it provides not a
shread of evidence in favor of being useful for asthma.
--
00doc
Rae
2005-06-12 14:52:11 UTC
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I'm not sure if I had *Hay fever related asthma* or not. But now that you've
brought this up, I'm going to contact that doctor I went to a few years back
and ask for a copy of my medical records.

From what I can remember, when they did that allergy test on me, (where they
prick your arm), the prick that reacted the most severely and quickly was
dog dander. And of course I have two dogs now, had three dogs then. (This is
all, before the yamoa) One of the two i have now, one sleeps in my bed with
me, the other on the floor next to my bed. She (smaller dog) was never a
trigger for me. The other dog, Sherlock the bloodhound was a huge trigger
the first few weeks. If I came in contact with him, I would get a bright red
rash up to my elbows which looked horrible and I would have to use my
inhaler if I tried to hold him or pet him too much. I washed him good
several times when I first got him which always brought on the asthma and
then I would put some anti allergy liquid on him. But then after those first
three weeks, I stopped washing him and quit putting the anti allergy liquid
on him. I Just avoided too much direct skin contact with him and wore gloves
and skin protectors on my forearms when I handled him. But I was still near
him constantly. Then after about a two months or perhaps three, I completely
lost my allergy to him. When his drool or dander came in contact with my
skin, I no longer got a rash and was able to give him a hug and pet him,
brush him etc. Yet, a couple of times when my neighbor's dog came over for
only a couple of hours, I felt my chest tighten and I needed my inhaler. So
my only explanation for all this is that you can become immune to things
that you are allergic to if you're exposed to them steadily over a period of
time. That seems to be what happened with me and Sherlock. I think that
maybe if I had my neighbor's dog with me for an extended period of time
after washing her, that my allergy to her would stop as well due to the
constant prolonged exposure. Sort of like the way a flu shot works. They
give you a little of the virus and then you become immune to it. Just my own
little theory.

The other thing I was supposedly allergic to was dust mite. And I could
never be around a lot of dust without an attack. I avoided it as much as
possible so I'm not sure if I could ever become immune to that. I do
remember I was not allergic to rag weed and many of the pollens we have
around here. But in spite of what those tests said, there was something in
the air in this Shenandoah valley that I could not tolerate. The valleys
tend to hold the air pollution more so maybe that's it.

I could not walk outside without a couple of tissues on me. My nose ran
constantly and eyes teared often since moving here in 96. What ever defect
my system had that made me respond in such a way to the air outside and
inside to a lesser degree, this yomoa powder has helped do something so that
these things no longer affect me. Perhaps it does have something to do with
the immune system. I have tested myself with just about everything now short
of having a handful of dust thrown in front of me.

The true test of this yamoa powder will come when I finish the bottle or
perhaps the second bottle. If after I finish taking it, I can still hike
outside without the runny nose and asthma attacks that will truely be what I
would call something pretty wonderful. Even if I had to take a bottle every
year to keep these results, I would be happy with that. It would be a far
less damaging treatment than what the drug companies have come up with. But
they say most people never need to continue with it after their first or
second bottle so I'm hoping I'm in that percentage who feel they are
*cured*. Maybe it fixed something in my immune system. And if this newsgroup
is still here in 5 years, and I am still here (God willing), and still
without the symptons, then I'll come back and let you all know. Then, Mr.
Bob, maybe you'll hang that label of *cured* on me.

Rae
Sounds like it may be more helpful for those who have hay fever related
asthma.
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/uknews/news20020813.shtml#5
Mark Chadbourn reports on a new treatment for hay fever, called Yamoa,
derived from the ground-up bark of West African gum trees. Early
statistics from a study at the Chiron Clinic, Harley Street, London, show
that 48 per cent of Yamoa users claim they have been completely cured of
hay fever, while a third believe they've seen marked improvement. The
naturally-derived product also appears to relieve the symptoms of asthma,
with nearly one-third of subjects suffering from asthma being completely
cured and 41 per cent reporting a marked improvement. Dr Nyjon Eccles,
leading the trials, said, 'Yamoa seems to alter the immune system so the
patient is no longer sensitive to pollen triggers. Patients need to take
it for only a two month period, never again.
Renato
2005-06-13 12:44:33 UTC
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I just ordered a couple of them. Let's see if it's true.

Renato
Chile
Post by Rae
I heard through an alternative newsletter about an amazing all natural
asthma cure. I found it locally at an alternative health pharmacy here
where I live.
It is amazing. I am on day 12 of taking this powder. 1/4 teaspoon in AM
with a little grapefruit juice and 1/4 teaspoon at night. (I didn't want
to take it with honey as they suggest since I watch my weight and sugar
intake.)
For the first time since I cannot remember, YEARS, I was able to walk my
dog up hills etc., without using my rescue inhaler. I came home from our
walk so excited the last couple of days. Still didn't need the inhaler
after I got home.
I used to reach for the inhaler on waking. Now, I get up fine. I do not
need the inhaler.
I visited an asthma allergy and asthma doctor here in Va., a few years ago
and he wanted me to go on pulmicort. I tried it then stopped because it
gave me yeast infections in my throat. I didn't trust the long term side
affects it might cause so stopped using it after the first tube ran out.
After that, I just used my inhaler (over the counter inhaler) all the time
throughout the day and night. I never went anywhere without it.
Now, I'm thinking maybe I'm cured.
The other thing this amazing ALL NATURAL powder has done, is to clear up
my allergies. I have not been without a box of tissues nearby or in my
hand when outside in YEARS. On my walks, I had to contantly dry my nose
and eyes over the last several years because i live in Shenandoah valley
and its bad for allergies and asthmatics. It was always embarrasing when
meeting people on the street or in the park, having to use my tissue
constantly. Over the past few days, when I walked my dog, I never needed a
tissue! My nose did not run AT ALL. My eyes did not water.
I cannot say enough about this wonderful product. They say most people
only have to use one bottle. It last 30 days. Some people may need a 2nd .
I do not know yet if I'll need a follow up bottle or not, but at day 12, I
am ecstatic!
I have had asthma since I was about 7 years old. Felt I came near death
several times. Had many many severe asthma attacks. One came recently,
this past month. I Finally had resolved after the last one which was
brought on by a simple head cold which went into bronchitus, that I could
not risk my life with any more. So had resigned myself to going back to
the doctor to get on the pulmicort or whatever he suggested. Then I picked
up a health newsletter that I had read before and had put aside. I read
again about this amazing powder from Ghana. I got the powder from a local
health pharmacy. Needless to say, I will NOT be going on medication.
I know I sound like an infomercial for this product, but I have no
interest in their company. I just want to share this wonderful info for
anyone out there who like me, suffered with asthma and didn't want to take
medication or for those looking for help for their children.
This product is called yamoa. They have a website called yamoapowder.com
Read the other testimonials on their website for yourself. If you do an
online search, you can find several vitamin or health stores that sell it
here in US so you don't have to order it from England.
I hope this helps someone.
Rae
Rae
2005-06-13 15:55:17 UTC
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I hope it works for you. I started noticing a difference after the fifth
day. Everyone is different however.
Good luck
Post by Renato
I just ordered a couple of them. Let's see if it's true.
Renato
Chile
Post by Rae
I heard through an alternative newsletter about an amazing all natural
asthma cure. I found it locally at an alternative health pharmacy here
where I live.
It is amazing. I am on day 12 of taking this powder. 1/4 teaspoon in AM
with a little grapefruit juice and 1/4 teaspoon at night. (I didn't want
to take it with honey as they suggest since I watch my weight and sugar
intake.)
For the first time since I cannot remember, YEARS, I was able to walk my
dog up hills etc., without using my rescue inhaler. I came home from our
walk so excited the last couple of days. Still didn't need the inhaler
after I got home.
I used to reach for the inhaler on waking. Now, I get up fine. I do not
need the inhaler.
I visited an asthma allergy and asthma doctor here in Va., a few years ago
and he wanted me to go on pulmicort. I tried it then stopped because it
gave me yeast infections in my throat. I didn't trust the long term side
affects it might cause so stopped using it after the first tube ran out.
After that, I just used my inhaler (over the counter inhaler) all the time
throughout the day and night. I never went anywhere without it.
Now, I'm thinking maybe I'm cured.
The other thing this amazing ALL NATURAL powder has done, is to clear up
my allergies. I have not been without a box of tissues nearby or in my
hand when outside in YEARS. On my walks, I had to contantly dry my nose
and eyes over the last several years because i live in Shenandoah valley
and its bad for allergies and asthmatics. It was always embarrasing when
meeting people on the street or in the park, having to use my tissue
constantly. Over the past few days, when I walked my dog, I never needed a
tissue! My nose did not run AT ALL. My eyes did not water.
I cannot say enough about this wonderful product. They say most people
only have to use one bottle. It last 30 days. Some people may need a 2nd .
I do not know yet if I'll need a follow up bottle or not, but at day 12, I
am ecstatic!
I have had asthma since I was about 7 years old. Felt I came near death
several times. Had many many severe asthma attacks. One came recently,
this past month. I Finally had resolved after the last one which was
brought on by a simple head cold which went into bronchitus, that I could
not risk my life with any more. So had resigned myself to going back to
the doctor to get on the pulmicort or whatever he suggested. Then I picked
up a health newsletter that I had read before and had put aside. I read
again about this amazing powder from Ghana. I got the powder from a local
health pharmacy. Needless to say, I will NOT be going on medication.
I know I sound like an infomercial for this product, but I have no
interest in their company. I just want to share this wonderful info for
anyone out there who like me, suffered with asthma and didn't want to take
medication or for those looking for help for their children.
This product is called yamoa. They have a website called yamoapowder.com
Read the other testimonials on their website for yourself. If you do an
online search, you can find several vitamin or health stores that sell it
here in US so you don't have to order it from England.
I hope this helps someone.
Rae
00doc
2005-06-14 02:28:24 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Renato
I just ordered a couple of them. Let's see if it's true.
Renato
Chile
I hope it works for you to.

Let us know.
--
00doc
Rae
2005-06-23 15:52:42 UTC
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This study seems to confirm what I had noticed about my allergy to my
bloodhound and my theory that I built up an immunity to him by being in
constant contact with him.

Cats May Protect Against Asthma
Contrary to popular belief, high levels of cat allergen in the home can
sometimes decrease the risk of a child developing asthma, says grantee
Thomas A. Platts-Mills, M.D., Ph.D., of the University of Virginia.
Apparently, the presence of a cat can alter the immune system in a manner
similar to allergy shots, he reports.

For other allergens that trigger asthma, such as the dust mite and
cockroach, the higher the exposure level, the more likely it is that a child
will produce "allergic" antibodies, called immunoglobulin-E or Ig-E
antibodies, against them. This high exposure increases the child's risk of
becoming allergic and developing asthma.

But with cats, high exposure actually can confer protection -- at least in
some children, Dr. Platts-Mills says. He and colleagues measured the levels
of allergic antibodies to cat allergen in 226 children, aged 12 to 14 years,
and tested the children for asthma. They also measured the amount of cat
allergen in the children's homes and discovered that low-to-moderate amounts
of cat allergen seemed to trigger allergy, but high amounts -- greater than
20 micrograms per gram of house dust -- reduced both IgE antibodies and the
likelihood of asthma.

"This result alters the advice we give patients," says Dr. Platts-Mills. "I
would not recommend that all parents get rid of their cat because they are
concerned their child might develop asthma. High exposure to cat allergen
appears to be protective for some children and a risk factor for others. If
the child is wheezing and has a positive skin test to cat allergen, then you
should get rid of your cat."

The high levels of cat allergen prompted the children's immune systems to
make mostly a particular subtype of immunoglobulin G (IgG), called IgG4
antibody, rather than IgE, Dr. Platts-Mills explains. Allergy shots are
believed to produce a similar effect. "This research sheds more light on the
relationship between allergen exposure and asthma," he says. "When we
further understand this process, it might lead to new treatments for
asthma."

Reference: T Platts-Mills et al. Sensitisation, asthma, and a modified Th2
response in children exposed to cat allergen: a populations-based
cross-sectional study. The Lancet 357:752-56 (2001).

(from:
http://www2.niaid.nih.gov/Newsroom/FocusOn/Asthma01/research.htm#dna )

The other dog, Sherlock the bloodhound was a huge trigger
Post by Rae
the first few weeks. If I came in contact with him, I would get a bright
red rash up to my elbows which looked horrible and I would have to use my
inhaler if I tried to hold him or pet him too much. I washed him good
several times when I first got him which always brought on the asthma and
then I would put some anti allergy liquid on him. But then after those
first three weeks, I stopped washing him and quit putting the anti allergy
liquid on him. I Just avoided too much direct skin contact with him and
wore gloves and skin protectors on my forearms when I handled him. But I
was still near him constantly. Then after about a two months or perhaps
three, I completely lost my allergy to him. When his drool or dander came
in contact with my skin, I no longer got a rash and was able to give him a
hug and pet him, brush him etc. Yet, a couple of times when my neighbor's
dog came over for only a couple of hours, I felt my chest tighten and I
needed my inhaler. So my only explanation for all this is that you can
become immune to things that you are allergic to if you're exposed to them
steadily over a period of time. That seems to be what happened with me and
Sherlock. I think that maybe if I had my neighbor's dog with me for an
extended period of time after washing her, that my allergy to her would
stop as well due to the constant prolonged exposure. Sort of like the way
a flu shot works. They give you a little of the virus and then you become
immune to it. Just my own little theory.
k***@gmail.com
2016-01-19 03:57:05 UTC
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does it help with copd & emphysema. ive been researching cures for copd, & there are natural ways to help, stem cell therapy, laser, some natural oils
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